[Discussion] Rebellion (v0.77)

[Chris Koźmik]

This is a topic to discuss and give feedback about the Rebellion mechanic.


So, finally the first iteration of rebellion is out. Crude but fully functional.
First, I want to know what you think about it overall. Next, what needs to be redesigned. And last one, bugs :)

[Dizzy Ioeuy]

Not seeing the patch notes yet? Thanks for the update though!

[Habituallyred]

Milestone for crushing the rebellion not triggering at the end of the rebellion.

Only survived the minister of internal affairs going traitor due to a random event. Tie eliminating courtiers to the bounty hunter event? More money for killing somebody specific/of a higher rank?

Can't recall any visible effects from traitorous admirals.

Include "reason and impact" in the statements that traitors make? A high loyalty courtier that betrays you due to their traits should shove that in the player's face. Also could give the player another angle on replacing traitorous ministers. A corrupted minister might be open to a bribe to switch sides, etc.

Separate message for losing/gaining planet vs. rebels as opposed to aliens? I don't mind planets flip flopping back and forth but It hides the impact aliens are having during the rebellion.

[Chris Koźmik]

Originally posted by Dizzy Ioeuy:

Not seeing the patch notes yet? Thanks for the update though!

There is some caching/delay with Steam regarding those it seems.

You can always check (subscribe to/follow) one of those, I always post announcements there as well:
https://discord.com/invite/Xs6x7qj
https://www.facebook.com/SilverLemurGames
https://twitter.com/SilverLemur

Originally posted by Habituallyred:

Milestone for crushing the rebellion not triggering at the end of the rebellion.

Confirmed bug. Fixed in upcoming v0.78. Thanks!

[Chris Koźmik]

Originally posted by Habituallyred:

Only survived the minister of internal affairs going traitor due to a random event. Tie eliminating courtiers to the bounty hunter event? More money for killing somebody specific/of a higher rank?

Can't recall any visible effects from traitorous admirals.

Include "reason and impact" in the statements that traitors make? A high loyalty courtier that betrays you due to their traits should shove that in the player's face. Also could give the player another angle on replacing traitorous ministers. A corrupted minister might be open to a bribe to switch sides, etc.

So, basically, having a traitor minister (esp Internal Affairs) is too deadly and you need some tools to deal with it?

Treachery from admirals is not implemented yet.

As for courties showng up and speaking up about their loyalty/treachery yeah... But I wonder how much bigger the rebel first turn audience will be there (definitely scrolling needed)... Would it be bad?

A thought: Maybe all ministers show up and then you have a costly option to remove such minister (but then, it's kind of inconsistent with not being able to fire minister otherwise during a rebellion)...
Alternative option: "Fire all ministers" options. But then you would need an option to appoint ministers during rebellion? Hmm...
Another concept: Maybe at SECOND audience of rebellion, you have an option to "enable firing ministers"? So you would have to get over having traitors for one audience and then can start replacing them.

[Habituallyred]

Any other minister combination I could have dealt with. But with internal affairs out of commission I had 0 special ops. Admittedly I was playing with imminent rebellion and deliberately triggered it.

You could reserve the first rebellion meeting for the noble houses. Have the spymaster ask the player what sort of weak links they should look for first. Then the second audience gives you a shot at ministers/admirals/governors that fit that profile. The idea is that everybody is solidly on board with the rebellion at first. But over time they start feeling nervous/guilty/etc. and looking for an exit.

I think limiting firings to an audience is fitting. The rebellion means that it is much more difficult to influence the cabinet. But if the ruler wants somebody dead and is willing to pay enough time and credits...

[Chris Koźmik]

Originally posted by Habituallyred:

You could reserve the first rebellion meeting for the noble houses. Have the spymaster ask the player what sort of weak links they should look for first. Then the second audience gives you a shot at ministers/admirals/governors that fit that profile. The idea is that everybody is solidly on board with the rebellion at first. But over time they start feeling nervous/guilty/etc. and looking for an exit.

I have one tiny little issue with this solution. If someone I trusted betrayed me in such a way, especially when given a ministerial position, I want to rip such person apart. When my spymaster, or whoever, bribes them to change sides it means I can't judge such traitor during the final tribunal when the rebellion is finally crushed. It does not feel, well, satisfying :D

Assassinating (or even better arresting) such a person feels better. Still, they must be somehow guarded and not that easy to target I guess?

Anyway, this still leaves the question of replacing (vacant) ministerial positions during rebellion...

[Chris Koźmik]

I was thinking, maybe simple "Emergency minister replacement" option which is just fire minister but quite expensive (9 Emperor Focus Pts, Stability -1). And then allow all usual court moves during rebellion (exculding traitors, no interaction with them allowed?) but at a x3 usual cost (or x2?).

[Chris Koźmik]

So, back to managing courtiers and ministers during rebellion. What you think about allowing it but at a higher price than normal? Extra expensive (possible with Stability hit) when dealing with a traitor courtier?

Also, waiting for more feedback about rebellion. Does something need to be changed/flashed out? Something missing? Or maybe you feel it's all right the way it is now?

[not a traitor]

Hello, i believe that then tackling rebeliious courtiers the bounty hunters would play a great role aloowing you to get rid of them in exchange for some money, as for replacing loyal courtiers , i would just add a srability penalty. the rebellion itself is pretty good, although i thin that flashing out planetary combat would be a great idea, i would also make the rebellion appear faster by changing the points adde to rebels from noble house support , i do fell rebeliion appears a bit to slow, moreover as a secondary thing i would add a bit more events tackling noble house involvment in the rebellion, as in history everybody even the loyalists try to maximise their gain from the rebellion . Thank you for reading.

[Habituallyred]

I do like the x3 personal time restriction. Holding off on further comment until I run through another rebellion.

Trying to start a rebellion in a game with half rebel power needed and failing. How much does a noble house need to hate you to support the rebels? I've got a noble house that has Desires the Throne, Feud with the Royal Household, and 350 relations. They are still not supporting the rebels.

[Chris Koźmik]

Originally posted by Habituallyred:

Trying to start a rebellion in a game with half rebel power needed and failing. How much does a noble house need to hate you to support the rebels? I've got a noble house that has Desires the Throne, Feud with the Royal Household, and 350 relations. They are still not supporting the rebels.

You mean more like that "there need to be rebalance so rebellion is more likely to start" or rather "I want to see bigger nobles involvement in the rebellion" or both (in such case please state which is more important)? Trying to figure out the nuances of your proposal :)

Originally posted by not a traitor:

...

Basically the same question as above :)

[Habituallyred]

2, which will feed directly into 1. Perhaps rival houses should generate events that boost rebel numbers if not countered with secrets?

I know the noble house priorities aren't implemented yet. But that whole complex of things should make it much trickier to keep turn over turn rebel numbers in the single digits.

[Chris Koźmik]

I was thinking about a quick solution: add a flat bonus to rebel points generation based on houses relations (listed as "Nobles secretly supporting rebels")? Note in such case you could still get "official" -5% to rebel points from a specific house while also they (unlisted which house exactly) could continue to provide "Nobles secretly supporting rebels by +X".

[Habituallyred]

I would base the hidden rebel bonus on house agendas rather than the relation status. Even a 1:1 grudge to bonus rebel points wouldn't be out of line.

But rebel generation needs to improve. At +5 or so a turn I can't imagine the game running long enough to see a rebellion unless I intentionally choose all the +rebel events.

On further review I have been taking the +2 loyalty starting trait. Perhaps it would be better to replace that with a competence or charisma trait?