They patched in the ability to choose skills to inherit?

[MechaTC]

Honestly, this might sound like I'm paying too much attention to too insignificant details, but for me, this is the sole reason to get Remastered. Well... Rather sole reason why I didn't get it already. And the sad thing is this patch was released in December if I'm correct. And I only found out about it today, by a complete accident!

Don't get me wrong. Nocturne might be the absolute best SMT game, and I enjoyed it immensely. But I didn't finish it. Why? Random skill inheritance. At some point, second-tier spells just ceased to deal sufficient enough damage, and I had only two options. Grind fusions or quit. And, well... By that point you know what did I choose

So I'm buying this crap at the first opportunity I'll get. I'm not passing by the greatest SMT game there is, now that my single issue is solved. By giving players possibilities to both randomize skill with a push of a button (before you had to "deselect-select" stuff, which was a nightmare) or outright choose skills. This is something I can applaud Atlus for

Now if only they could patch in something about Magatama skills... Make it more like DDS...

[Sejman22]

Yes they fixed.

[kemono]

The random skill inheritance is one of the most outdated, time consuming mechanics and I'm glad they actually fixed that to reflect the changes in later SMT games.

[Xuande]

And then you get SMT IV to demonstrate why being able to choose skills very quickly removes any sense of challenge.

Or for the Persona crowd, why being able to control party members when the difficulty is tuned around not doing so turns the balance into a joke in P3P/P4+.

Yes, turns out the average player is willing to sit there and min/max their rolls, but Nocturne doesn't require you to do this regardless of which difficulty you're playing on, or ending you're going for. Options are welcome, but be aware you're not going to get a balanced experience playing with guaranteed min/maxed fusions.

[solaris32]

I spent countless hours going back and forth in demon fusion. I was particularly proud at getting Surt reflect ice and fire boost skills.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Origineel geplaatst door Xuande:

And then you get SMT IV to demonstrate why being able to choose skills very quickly removes any sense of challenge.

Or for the Persona crowd, why being able to control party members when the difficulty is tuned around not doing so turns the balance into a joke in P3P/P4+.

Yes, turns out the average player is willing to sit there and min/max their rolls, but Nocturne doesn't require you to do this regardless of which difficulty you're playing on, or ending you're going for. Options are welcome, but be aware you're not going to get a balanced experience playing with guaranteed min/maxed fusions.

I've sat through the fusion nonsense in Nocturne already. Them adding QoL features that respects the player's time especially now that the audience for these games is older, is a big bonus in my book.

[MechaTC]

Origineel geplaatst door Xuande:

And then you get SMT IV to demonstrate why being able to choose skills very quickly removes any sense of challenge.

Or for the Persona crowd, why being able to control party members when the difficulty is tuned around not doing so turns the balance into a joke in P3P/P4+.

Yes, turns out the average player is willing to sit there and min/max their rolls, but Nocturne doesn't require you to do this regardless of which difficulty you're playing on, or ending you're going for. Options are welcome, but be aware you're not going to get a balanced experience playing with guaranteed min/maxed fusions.

Well, while I see how you came out with it, I don't particularly agree

I mean yes, streamlining demon fusions in general makes it easier to min/man demons in particular, thus possibly removing a challenge. But on the other hand (how I see it, at least...) it's not a very good way to increase a game's difficulty by handicapping player. Why? Because nobody likes to be handicapped. Neither likes to be locked from the good stuff by what's essentially a time sink

I still remember my magnum opus in P3FES. Hama Boost/Samsara/Mudo Boost/Die for Me Anubis. Fusing this bad boy was a complete nightmare. Just like fusing all elements Principality and Incubus (I think) in Nocturne. You may see the pattern here. Those are utility demons. Made just to make mundane tasks just a little bit more tolerable

Edit: And that's why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE what Atlus did in this patch. They gave us an option. An ability to quickly reroll a demon for you and an ability to choose skills for me. That's a win-win if I ever saw one

[solaris32]

Origineel geplaatst door MechaTC:

Edit: And that's why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE what Atlus did in this patch. They gave us an option. An ability to quickly reroll a demon for you and an ability to choose skills for me. That's a win-win if I ever saw one

You don't understand, people like that guy are only satisfied when the option is removed for everyone. It's like the people debating about fast travel back when TES: Oblivion was coming out. It didn't matter to them that fast travel is totally optional and you can waste your time walking everywhere, they didn't like the concept and more importantly hated that other people got to use it.

[BoxingBud]

The "rerolling" for nocturne was simply going back one menu, then ahead again to see what gets inherited in that fusion. don't know what challenge that brings over just being able to choose. It saves time. Not having it doesn't add challenge, it adds menu going forward than backwards boredom. Though with this price I'm just gonna stick with my original copies. Cheaper when it first released btw.

[MechaTC]

Origineel geplaatst door BoxingBud:

The "rerolling" for nocturne was simply going back one menu, then ahead again to see what gets inherited in that fusion. don't know what challenge that brings over just being able to choose. It saves time. Not having it doesn't add challenge, it adds menu going forward than backwards boredom. Though with this price I'm just gonna stick with my original copies. Cheaper when it first released btw.

While I share your sentiments about choosing what to inherit... Am I remembering it wrong?

I'm pretty sure rerolling fusions wasn't simply "X to deselect, O to select"... More like "X to deselect demon B, X to deselect demon A, O to select demon A, scroll to demon B, O to select demon B"... At least that would explain why Atlus would go out of their way to introduce this "reroll with one button" mechanic

[MechaTC]

Origineel geplaatst door solaris32:

Origineel geplaatst door MechaTC:

Edit: And that's why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE what Atlus did in this patch. They gave us an option. An ability to quickly reroll a demon for you and an ability to choose skills for me. That's a win-win if I ever saw one

You don't understand, people like that guy are only satisfied when the option is removed for everyone. It's like the people debating about fast travel back when TES: Oblivion was coming out. It didn't matter to them that fast travel is totally optional and you can waste your time walking everywhere, they didn't like the concept and more importantly hated that other people got to use it.

Nah, let him be. We all have our reasons to love or hate things

At the very least... I think I know why he feels that way. Imagine being able to fuse 3 demons tailored to stomp one specific boss? Before it was a matter of literal days, i.e. not worth ot. Now it's a matter of few hours. Tops. I.e. why not?

Not that I share this idea. But I think I know where it comes from

[OverKill]

Origineel geplaatst door Xuande:

And then you get SMT IV to demonstrate why being able to choose skills very quickly removes any sense of challenge.

That was addressed in 4 Final with demons having affinities for spells.

[censorship = death :(]

Origineel geplaatst door PROFILE NAME:

The random skill inheritance is one of the most outdated, time consuming mechanics and I'm glad they actually fixed that to reflect the changes in later SMT games.

oh f that. you can save scum for that.

but yeah, an option woudl be ok.

[censorship = death :(]

Origineel geplaatst door solaris32:

Origineel geplaatst door MechaTC:

Edit: And that's why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE what Atlus did in this patch. They gave us an option. An ability to quickly reroll a demon for you and an ability to choose skills for me. That's a win-win if I ever saw one

You don't understand, people like that guy are only satisfied when the option is removed for everyone. It's like the people debating about fast travel back when TES: Oblivion was coming out. It didn't matter to them that fast travel is totally optional and you can waste your time walking everywhere, they didn't like the concept and more importantly hated that other people got to use it.

true but fast travel did kill a lot of planning and immersion ... AND it lead to lazy level design. Somtimes imporvments are great, sometimes they'r enot. sometimes they come at a big price that no one could have seen coming.

[censorship = death :(]

Origineel geplaatst door solaris32:

Origineel geplaatst door MechaTC:

Edit: And that's why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE what Atlus did in this patch. They gave us an option. An ability to quickly reroll a demon for you and an ability to choose skills for me. That's a win-win if I ever saw one

You don't understand, people like that guy are only satisfied when the option is removed for everyone. It's like the people debating about fast travel back when TES: Oblivion was coming out. It didn't matter to them that fast travel is totally optional and you can waste your time walking everywhere, they didn't like the concept and more importantly hated that other people got to use it.

i guess people like it when things are true to source and want to give people the experience of rolling for skills.

i get that. it's about putting your soul in to it. i can see both sides of the argument though... and an option to toggle it on or off sounds like a good compromise.

just so long as they don't censor a damn thing.

[OverKill]

Origineel geplaatst door Xuande:

And then you get SMT IV to demonstrate why being able to choose skills very quickly removes any sense of challenge.

Or for the Persona crowd, why being able to control party members when the difficulty is tuned around not doing so turns the balance into a joke in P3P/P4+.

Yes, turns out the average player is willing to sit there and min/max their rolls, but Nocturne doesn't require you to do this regardless of which difficulty you're playing on, or ending you're going for. Options are welcome, but be aware you're not going to get a balanced experience playing with guaranteed min/maxed fusions.

SMT IV Final fixed that by bringing in skill affinities. Can't just dump all the good spells on a demon if they suffer a penalty in terms of MP and effectiveness by doing so.