What is the point of making Zangief so weak?

[Sven]

All his grabs are slower than any other character, he has almost no armored moves, even his taps are too slow to defend yourself. Even his super Siberian express has only one armor.

Am I missing something or is he just purposefully made to lose.

[Scrub]

Grapplers, as an archetype, are made slightly weaker because their gameplan is so volatile. 3 OD SPDs and you're dead. Not 3 combos, just 3 single special moves.

In order to balance that they "need to" (it's just been more developer preference across many fight games) make grapplers a bit harder to work with.

If they were just as mobile and aggressive as Ken or something, AND can kill you 3 special moves - that wouldn't be a fun character to go against.

[Cokonaut]

he is weak due to being uber slow and command grabs are very risky even though can do a lot of damage. Nonetheless he can still be pretty strong if you actually know how to play him and capable of beating any character and any player. the major problem is he can open himself to risk to get punished easily (the most compare to others, again due to being slow and command grabs are super risky if dodged) and hence a lot harder to be consistently winning unless you can be crazy focus and patient and flawless with executions.

my point is he still playable and is actually pretty fun to play. no one can escape my spd mwuahahaha

[Thick-Six]

Zangief is honestly only weak at a higher level where people play solid and don't let you in, people will make a lot of mistakes and you just scoop and take 30% life.

Similar to Honda hes probably a top 5 character until Diamond where he starts to fall off due to players knowing how to counter you.

[Sven]

Originally posted by doc:

Grapplers, as an archetype, are made slightly weaker because their gameplan is so volatile. 3 OD SPDs and you're dead. Not 3 combos, just 3 single special moves.

In order to balance that they "need to" (it's just been more developer preference across many fight games) make grapplers a bit harder to work with.

If they were just as mobile and aggressive as Ken or something, AND can kill you 3 special moves - that wouldn't be a fun character to go against.

You don’t have to explain how grapplers work. The point is that isn’t how Zangief works. He’s so slow he can’t even punish whiffs. Played can quick tap or out grab after a major whiff and never get grabbed or even hit. There is no nuance to countering Zangief, it’s just spam quick inputs. He can’t hit back, he can’t punish, he can’t even have proper pressure.

He’s not scary at all. He doesn’t need to be fast. He just needs at least one quick tap or one more armor on Siberian express. A large portion of the characters in sf6 are fast, pressure characters, and they all nullify Zangief instantly just by button smashing. He should be forcing players to think about strategy not spamming light punch. Every other character has easy counters to basic tactics, but Zangief has an extremely shallow toolkit.

[Scrub]

Originally posted by Sven:

You don’t have to explain how grapplers work.

If you had so much extra context why didn't you lay it out rofl. I don't know you and I don't know how much fighting game knowledge you already have.

"Why gief bad" is some Silver-league question that gets asked a lot so we have to generally roll out the "this is why grapplers are bad" explanation a lot. Ask what you wanna ask next time.

[Sven]

Originally posted by doc:

Originally posted by Sven:

You don’t have to explain how grapplers work.

If you had so much extra context why didn't you lay it out rofl. I don't know you and I don't know how much fighting game knowledge you already have.

"Why gief bad" is some Silver-league question that gets asked a lot so we have to generally roll out the "this is why grapplers are bad" explanation a lot. Ask what you wanna ask next time.

Well that’s not what I said, I prefer grapplers and there are grapplers who have high mobility and have fast hits so you’re not even right. You don’t have to be insulting about it. My points are sound, Zangief can not handle pressure and is too slow to punish, when usually the whole point of the grappler is to take key opportunities.

[GraveTrail]

Gief can and has won major tournaments this year.

It is the player that wins not the character.
A bad player can win with a high tier character but a better player will beat that character.

[Richer]

PICK MANON

[Danny DeVito with a Gun]

His command grabs are literally the fastest possible startup a command grab can have in this game

[Heegu]

Originally posted by Danny DeVito with a Gun:

His command grabs are literally the fastest possible startup a command grab can have in this game

This. His grabs are supposed to be used after conditioning the opponent by proper use of his normals. This isn't sf4 with its two frame SPD.

EVERYONE in this game has an armored move with two hits of armor. Use that when you need to blow through something predictable.

Is he weak and kind of dysfunctional? Sure. Is he fun to play and rewarding when you play patiently? Heck yes.

[✪ BOSS KONG ✪]

If you think Gief is weak you should watch the player Snake Eyez

[Sven]

Originally posted by ✪ BOSS KONG ✪:

If you think Gief is weak you should watch the player Snake Eyez

Definitely get what you’re saying, Zangief is actually formidable in competitive but he has a solid ceiling in most cases. We live in a world where Blanka places higher than Zangief. Only a hand few of people in the WORLD can win a comp with Zangief. And we ain’t them.

[ele]

Zangief not scary? In what reality?

[cdrw2400]

Originally posted by Sven:

You don’t have to explain how grapplers work. The point is that isn’t how Zangief works. He’s so slow he can’t even punish whiffs. Played can quick tap or out grab after a major whiff and never get grabbed or even hit. There is no nuance to countering Zangief, it’s just spam quick inputs. He can’t hit back, he can’t punish, he can’t even have proper pressure.

He’s not scary at all. He doesn’t need to be fast. He just needs at least one quick tap or one more armor on Siberian express. A large portion of the characters in sf6 are fast, pressure characters, and they all nullify Zangief instantly just by button smashing. He should be forcing players to think about strategy not spamming light punch. Every other character has easy counters to basic tactics, but Zangief has an extremely shallow toolkit.

I've moaned a lot about 'Gief's weaknesses (he's my main), although I don't agree with this.

One thing is that some players are really good - including with zoning and spacing - and so keep themselves out of range from stuff like whiff punishes. I rely heavily on drive rush to get in, and often turn it into a "rock, paper, scissors" scenario where I may grab, strike, or jump (and grab in the air).

The only times I'll usually use siberian express is to surprise opponents while they are blocking normals, or to punish a whiff if I am too far away for an SPD. Full screen siberian express is useless.

As for annoying players who spam light attacks (I've met plenty of them), spacing is important, as attacks such as machine gun chops have a longer range. I've also had to learn (the hard way) to block without mashing buttons. Again, 'Gief relies heavily on Drive Rush mechanics.

[Sven]

Originally posted by Danny DeVito with a Gun:

His command grabs are literally the fastest possible startup a command grab can have in this game

This is just false, everyone can grab Zangief faster. Even when people whiff they can grab after because he’s so slow.