What happend with Cerberus between ME2 and ME3?

[A Pebble]

In ME2 Cerberus presents itself as a splinter group focused completely on humanity. Obviously trying to stop the abductions on human colonies and fight the collectors/reapers. TIM spends a huge fortune bringing back Shep and rebuilding the Normandy for this sole purpose... Then suddenly in ME3 they are the main antagonists, with indoctrinated soldiers and a complete reversal with suddenly siding with the Reapers?

Am I missing something here? Why did Cerberus suddenly do a massive 180 in their goals in ME3?

[Canadian Ninja]

They aren't siding with the reapers, at least not intentionally. They believe they are working to try and control them to give Humanity an unstoppable fleet of ships to dominate the galaxy, what they are doing to the troops is justified to their indoctrinated states as required physical and emotional upgrades to fight the war. And being really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up is kind of their MO in 1 as well - they are just much quieter about it.

Yeah the Illusive Man does all that, but in the end he decides to keep the Base and continue working with it, even if they aren't culling people quite yet.

In the end what happens between the two games is the Indoctrination was much more subtle if present at all while in the finale it's dialed up to 11 and they are used as other races have in the past as a distraction force, which Javik mentions happened in his time as well.

Tl;dr they think they are doing good but are misunderstood / feared for their tactics and don't consider that the reapers are making them the villians

[5ean5ean]

they had the human reaper heart from the Collector base inside of cerberus headquarters and they became indoctrinated like Saren.

Reapers give their slaves false hope by thinking they are outsmarting them (Like Saren believing he would be sparred) that way they won't question thier motives. In the end thier purpose is to sabotage the resistance effort from the inside.

This is why Reapers attacked Horizon instead of taking out the Illusive man directly anytime they wanted. The Illusive Man was indoctrinated, Miranda's father was not.

[Cryptales]

Tbh all consistency aside, i wonder how they got in from that base in the first place. IFF and all that. "precise" navigating through that relay.

[5ean5ean]

Messaggio originale di Cryptales:

Tbh all consistency aside, i wonder how they got in from that base in the first place. IFF and all that. "precise" navigating through that relay.

One of those things we shouldnt think too hard about. That's why destroying the base is the only logical option.

[G_Moneh]

Messaggio originale di Slick:

TIM spends a huge fortune bringing back Shep and rebuilding the Normandy for this sole purpose... Then suddenly in ME3 they are the main antagonists,

Am I missing something here? Why did Cerberus suddenly do a massive 180 in their goals in ME3?

This was my biggest issue with ME3. The complete 180 in Cerberus from ME2 to ME3. It really came out of left field from a group doing everything to bring back Shepard and stop the Reapers, working with all aliens and their governments to suddenly going HAM against everyone including the Alliance and really being the main antagonist.

This could be explained with the simple "The illusive Man was indoctrinated and just like Saren felt control/working with the reapers was best" and decided to kill a bunch of people to do it, but dang if that doesn't feel like a cheap shot and already explored as a plot point in ME 1.

[Evilnapkin]

Indoctrination is a recurring theme.

[5ean5ean]

Messaggio originale di G_Moneh:

Messaggio originale di Slick:

TIM spends a huge fortune bringing back Shep and rebuilding the Normandy for this sole purpose... Then suddenly in ME3 they are the main antagonists,

Am I missing something here? Why did Cerberus suddenly do a massive 180 in their goals in ME3?

This was my biggest issue with ME3. The complete 180 in Cerberus from ME2 to ME3. It really came out of left field from a group doing everything to bring back Shepard and stop the Reapers, working with all aliens and their governments to suddenly going HAM against everyone including the Alliance and really being the main antagonist.

This could be explained with the simple "The illusive Man was indoctrinated and just like Saren felt control/working with the reapers was best" and decided to kill a bunch of people to do it, but dang if that doesn't feel like a cheap shot and already explored as a plot point in ME 1.

But the theme of Mass Effect is life operates on a cycle. They did the exact same thing with The Protheans. Thats literally the only thing Reapers know how to do. They indoctrinate and use our own people against us.

I think the only antagonist that broke this mold was the Shadow Broker who had a great reason to let the Reapers win without needing to be indoctrinated..... He's a Yahg and his race would have been sparred by Reapers since they aren't advanced. Which means he would pretty much rule the universe when Reapers leave.

[-g2.B(+)urne]

For me its the Typical "Reaper" Mode of Operation. Utilize and Use splinter groups with low moral standards, willingness to test/play with alien tech, skirt the boundries of galactic law. There is no telling how long Cerberus was under reaper control without even realizing it. Similar to how they infiltrated and converted the Protheans/Collectors or Geth/Heretics, Humans/Cerberus... they Use, Abuse, and control every organic species they come in contact with... its just a calculated move on when they take complete control over a said species, and Ascend it "So to Speak". To begin the process of creating a new improved reaper based on which ever current cycles considered "Apex" Species they choose to take over/steal/build on/modify/mutate to their own ends.

[Drakensson]

Messaggio originale di 5ean5ean:

they had the human reaper heart from the Collector base inside of cerberus headquarters and they became indoctrinated like Saren.

Reapers give their slaves false hope by thinking they are outsmarting them (Like Saren believing he would be sparred) that way they won't question thier motives. In the end thier purpose is to sabotage the resistance effort from the inside.

This is why Reapers attacked Horizon instead of taking out the Illusive man directly anytime they wanted. The Illusive Man was indoctrinated, Miranda's father was not.

Has this been explicitly and specifically confirmed by Bioware?
Or is it just a fan theory? I'm not a fan of guessing and speculation

[Biotic Geth Prime]

Actually, if memory serves, what they are able to retrieve from the collector base and storage at their HQ may differ, based on if you decided to explode the base, or to capture after killing all collectors with a radiation blast. It can be the heart or the head.

[Captain_Emeritus]

Cerberus was always evil back to ME1. And they were even in ME2. Hearing their motives from the head of the organization while Shepard was more or less forced to work with them in ME2 makes them seem less evil. The lines get blurred a bit. Their thing has always been about gaining power at all costs, regardless of how criminal the methods.

[Captain_Emeritus]

Messaggio originale di Drakensson:

Messaggio originale di 5ean5ean:

they had the human reaper heart from the Collector base inside of cerberus headquarters and they became indoctrinated like Saren.

Reapers give their slaves false hope by thinking they are outsmarting them (Like Saren believing he would be sparred) that way they won't question thier motives. In the end thier purpose is to sabotage the resistance effort from the inside.

This is why Reapers attacked Horizon instead of taking out the Illusive man directly anytime they wanted. The Illusive Man was indoctrinated, Miranda's father was not.

Has this been explicitly and specifically confirmed by Bioware?
Or is it just a fan theory? I'm not a fan of guessing and speculation

I don't think Bioware has stated anything, but there's some pretty good fan theories on youtube. Also, the techno-organic mods he had in ME3 are a lot like what Saren was sporting in ME1 which were installed to help make him more susceptible to indoctrination. Haven't played ME3 yet to know the story in depth myself, but it sounds reasonable enough.

[Zanakar]

Messaggio originale di Captain_Emeritus:

Cerberus was always evil back to ME1. And they were even in ME2. Hearing their motives from the head of the organization while Shepard was more or less forced to work with them in ME2 makes them seem less evil. The lines get blurred a bit. Their thing has always been about gaining power at all costs, regardless of how criminal the methods.

Yeah, a few (two or was it three) linked side missions at ME 1 show that Cerberus is a classic ends-justify-means black operations organization.
Not surprised that people miss that part though, considering what ME 1 side missions are or aren't.

[Outbound]

Notice how TIM's glowing eyes look pretty similar to a husk's? That's not accidental. In one of the comics, TIM and Saren were both exposed to a Reaper artifact years before the start of the first game. That's where TIM's glowing eyes came from. It also made the two of them more extremist in their thinking.

Cerberus was always an evil organization. In 2, we saw a carefully crafted, heavily sanitized version of Cerberus that TIM was feeding to Shepard to make the organization seem better than it really was. He deliberately picked nice, cuddly individuals like Kelly, Gabby, and Kennith for the Normandy's crew and avoided putting any extremists in there.

In ME3, we just saw the effects of long-term exposure to Reaper tech finally kick in with TIM and Cerberus went back to being the illegitimate lovechild of COBRA and the Umbrella Corporation that it was in the first game.

[Ogami]

"Bad writing" is what happened.