Dual Wield Dex Build

[Strife]

Does anyone have any good Dex DW melee dps builds? Without pets.

Been trying to put one together but am not satisfied by any of my efforts so far.

Thanks!

[darkholyPL]

Anything specific in mind? Or just 'any dex dual wield'?
Because if 'any' then here's your template:
Feats:
Two Weapon fighiting
Double Slice
Imporved TWF
Greater TWF
Weapon Finese
Mythic Finese

Max Dex at character creation, get a race with +2 dex racial, keep pumping that dex.
There you go. Rest depends on what exactly you want to build.

[e.hough]

If you want to go pure TWF your best bet is either a mutation fighter, so you can pick up the weapon specialization tree + ability to dual wield two one handed weapons (advanced weapon training feat effortless dual wielding) + mutagen or go Slayer for TWF + sneak attacks.

If you want to mix in some magic with that then your best bet is a Vivisectionist (alchemist) - they get sneak attacks even faster than slayers, mutagen to boost dex, great buff spells and like fighters and slayers, they get bonus feats/powers every even level so lots of feats. You do sacrifice BAB for this.

[GunStarX]

Good advice on the basic needs above. An option without mythic finesse

1. Arcane enforcer with mage armor exploit so you can pump dex and use archmage armor and martial proficiency
2 - 4. Knife master to get 1d8 sneak damage and finesse training with kukri at level 4 for dex to damage
Then I would probably stick with arcane enforcer for at least another 14 levels to get the bab progression, sneak attacks, and study target bonuses.
1 level of vivisectionist mixed in would be good for mutagen and sneak attack

[Mork]

1 traditional monk -> 8 Eldritch Scion -> 10 Eldritch Knight

Mutation warrior and/or Freebooter dwarf with a Dwarven Urgrosh (but it's mostly a STR build)

[dwarner]

Originally posted by e.hough:

If you want to go pure TWF your best bet is either a mutation fighter, so you can pick up the weapon specialization tree + ability to dual wield two one handed weapons (advanced weapon training feat effortless dual wielding) + mutagen or go Slayer for TWF + sneak attacks.

If you want to mix in some magic with that then your best bet is a Vivisectionist (alchemist) - they get sneak attacks even faster than slayers, mutagen to boost dex, great buff spells and like fighters and slayers, they get bonus feats/powers every even level so lots of feats. You do sacrifice BAB for this.

This is awful advice. Weapon Specialization is 2 damage per hit. You'll easily be hitting 100 if you want to by midgame.

Mutation Warrior and Vivi are clickbait memes. You'll do better once you've played the game and gotten a feel for it (unless you want to utility of Alchemist and don't need bombs for some reason). People who are always recommending the same few classes or builds are used to easily solvable games where most options are obvious trash. That isn't this one.

They're both decent for STR-based but DEX has better options.

If you're determined to go DEX-based most efficient is probably taking advantage of free Finesse and Dex-to-Damage of Rogue, since with TWF you're also doubling up on your Sneaks. Of course you've already got that via a companion. Slayer can also work or even Cult Leader Warpriest to get the dice on your light weapons growing with level.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Mork:

1 traditional monk -> 8 Eldritch Scion -> 10 Eldritch Knight

Mutation warrior and/or Freebooter dwarf with a Dwarven Urgrosh (but it's mostly a STR build)

EK is AWFUL with slow progression.

Slow progression classes trade the fast progression of a caster for a ton of scaling abilities. EK gives up those abilities for... a couple feats? and is still stuck with the slow progression.

What are people even doing? This isn't 3.5. Slow progression classes are already pre-multiclassed.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Good advice on the basic needs above. An option without mythic finesse

1. Arcane enforcer with mage armor exploit so you can pump dex and use archmage armor and martial proficiency
2 - 4. Knife master to get 1d8 sneak damage and finesse training with kukri at level 4 for dex to damage
Then I would probably stick with arcane enforcer for at least another 14 levels to get the bab progression, sneak attacks, and study target bonuses.
1 level of vivisectionist mixed in would be good for mutagen and sneak attack

Archmage Armor is terrible. Mythic Feats and Abilities are the most powerful thing you can do in the game, and you're trading them away for a couple AC, that you could have gotten with the armor slot you've needlessly given up?

What are people even doing?

[e.hough]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Originally posted by e.hough:

If you want to go pure TWF your best bet is either a mutation fighter, so you can pick up the weapon specialization tree + ability to dual wield two one handed weapons (advanced weapon training feat effortless dual wielding) + mutagen or go Slayer for TWF + sneak attacks.

If you want to mix in some magic with that then your best bet is a Vivisectionist (alchemist) - they get sneak attacks even faster than slayers, mutagen to boost dex, great buff spells and like fighters and slayers, they get bonus feats/powers every even level so lots of feats. You do sacrifice BAB for this.

This is awful advice. Weapon Specialization is 2 damage per hit. You'll easily be hitting 100 if you want to by midgame.

Mutation Warrior and Vivi are clickbait memes. You'll do better once you've played the game and gotten a feel for it (unless you want to utility of Alchemist and don't need bombs for some reason). People who are always recommending the same few classes or builds are used to easily solvable games where most options are obvious trash. That isn't this one.

They're both decent for STR-based but DEX has better options.

If you're determined to go DEX-based most efficient is probably taking advantage of free Finesse and Dex-to-Damage of Rogue, since with TWF you're also doubling up on your Sneaks. Of course you've already got that via a companion. Slayer can also work or even Cult Leader Warpriest to get the dice on your light weapons growing with level.

+2 from weapon spec, +2 from GWS, +5 from mythic WS, +4 from weapon mastery, +2 from gloves of dueling = +15 dam per hit. With a full BAB as well as +6 to hit from weapon mastery you can leverage piranha strike to its fullest without seriously impacting your to hit chance.

That said, I do agree with dwarner that the full MW or Slayer option is boring click bait which is why I tend to use those builds as mercenaries rather than my main. One word of advice though, while the power gaming experts love minor dips into a class to pick up all the cool stuff they tend to give at first level, every time you dip into a 3/4 or 1/2 BAB class you lose BAB which can seriously impact you if you do a lot of that early on and can cost you iterative attacks at higher levels.

[jsaving]

Originally posted by Strife:

Does anyone have any good Dex DW melee dps builds? Without pets.

Been trying to put one together but am not satisfied by any of my efforts so far.

DEX-based DW offers substantially less damage than STR-based two-handed in exchange for a relatively modest gain in survivability. That's true even if you find a way to get DEX-to-damage, for a host of reasons including buffs, weapon selection, feat-burning and 1.5x strength bonus when two-handing.

The main thing to do if you want a DEX-based DW build anyway is to recognize and accept you can't reach parity damage-wise with strength builds, verify in your own mind that you have other reasons for wanting DEX-based DW, and then try to get as close as you can by throwing as much precision damage onto each strike as you can.

I'd personally go rogue to cut down on the number of wasted feats, and might even consider eldritch scoundrel for extra party utility. Agree with @dwarner that cult leader is a viable alternative and you could even consider sanctified slayer, which with patience would let you take shatter at 16th level without meeting any of its prerequisites.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Originally posted by Strife:

Does anyone have any good Dex DW melee dps builds? Without pets.

Been trying to put one together but am not satisfied by any of my efforts so far.

DEX-based DW offers substantially less damage than STR-based two-handed in exchange for a relatively modest gain in survivability. That's true even if you find a way to get DEX-to-damage, for a host of reasons including buffs, weapon selection, feat-burning and 1.5x strength bonus when two-handing.

The main thing to do if you want a DEX-based DW build anyway is to recognize and accept you can't reach parity damage-wise, and then try to get as close as you can by throwing as much precision damage onto each strike as you can. I'd personally go rogue to cut down on the number of wasted feats, and might even consider eldritch scoundrel for extra party utility. Agree with @dwarner that cult leader is a viable alternative and you could even consider sanctified slayer, which with patience would let you take shatter at 16th level without meeting any of its prerequisites.

Can’t kill a corpse. There are advantages to both approaches. Rogue (especially Scoundrel) adds more than a little survivability, especially with Slippery Mind.

[GunStarX]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Good advice on the basic needs above. An option without mythic finesse

1. Arcane enforcer with mage armor exploit so you can pump dex and use archmage armor and martial proficiency
2 - 4. Knife master to get 1d8 sneak damage and finesse training with kukri at level 4 for dex to damage
Then I would probably stick with arcane enforcer for at least another 14 levels to get the bab progression, sneak attacks, and study target bonuses.
1 level of vivisectionist mixed in would be good for mutagen and sneak attack

Archmage Armor is terrible. Mythic Feats and Abilities are the most powerful thing you can do in the game, and you're trading them away for a couple AC, that you could have gotten with the armor slot you've needlessly given up?

What are people even doing?

Now I remember why I have your responses blocked since you only regurgitate the same tired responses to everything that doesn't fit your idea of good. Your posting is a meme at this point.

Let's see you can get up to +14 ac without any armor penalty for a single mythic ability for a non caster melee build. Oh yeah and since it's a non caster you can actually wear armor until your archmage is better, imagine that meta gaming! You can easily get your character to 32 dex with 24 base, +6 belt and reduce person for +11 dex bonus making armor worthless, before adding anything else that will boost your dex.

I'm not aware of any armor that gives you 14 ac and 11 dex bonus, are you? A "couple" ac can literally be the difference between only getting hit on a 20 or not.

Edit: slight math error

[dwarner]

BTW I’m only an ass to memes (since the people you got them from are bigger asses than I could ever be) and yes of course I’m overstating the case.

There’s a great game here that most haven’t even scratched the surface of yet. Free your mind and have fun.

[ayrtep]

The problem with dex dual wield is that Fencing and slashing grace require no weapon in your other hand so are no good for dual wield. So you have to wait for Weapon Finesse (Mythic).

You could play as a one-handed kukris mutation warror, and switch to dual wielded kukris once you can get the Mythic weapon finesse feat. The trouble is that once you do that your slashing grace feat will be redundant. Plus it will tough playing with a sub optimal build until then.

So its really awkward unless you are happy to play as anything else and respec once you can get mythic weapon finess.

[darkholyPL]

What I'm wondering is why OP wants a dex dual wielder specifically? You can go that route with NPC companions, since you make what you can with what you're given, but if you are making a build from zero, then you should go with str, not dex. Is much easier to buff and to higher levels and you save on feats. Win-win.

[Slice]

You've got advice here. Whether it's good or bad, I can't say. I'm not good enough at the game to know.

However, I do know that you will get the most out of the game, playing the character you want to play. Some builds will not be successful on Core difficulty and above. You have to okay with lowering the difficulty to enjoy those builds. I don't go above "Daring" because I don't read guides and make up my builds as I go.

TLDR: Play the build you want, you'll get the most enjoyment out of the game.