Stealth shortcomings.

[letir]

Really disapointed how stealth mode so badly designed, despite being one of the main selling points of the game. I like that you can scout and set-up, but stealth mode, stealth moves and overall anti-stealth design of the game making it very unfriendly, and sometimes total waste of time.

Here is the problems:
1. Enemies which immune to takedowns are way too commonplace, and they often roaming all over the place, disrupting stealth. You know that something go wrong in "stealth game" when there is 50% of takedown immune enemies on the site.
2. Reinforcements beacons summon no matter that. You can not disable or destroy they by any means. In most stealth games you can sabotage these kind of devices, here you forced to fight reinforcements even if there is only one enemy left.
3. No aspect of stealth can be improved, upgraded or leveled up. There is no special skills to interact with enemies, no consumables to set up distraction, nothing. The most basic thing - toss an object to cause some noise - only exist as combat skill. Can't even upgrade takedowns.
4. Camera likes to wrestle control out of your hands and focus on "very important thing"... while enemies keep moving in real time. Did anybody playtested this?


But wait, there is a real way to be sneaky! You can just lure out enemies one by one from their camp. Also possible to pinpoint needed enemies by running away from them in tactical mode for some distance. Nobody will suspect anything when their boss will run out of the camp and vanish in the wilderness after loud firefight. Court may invent unstoppable teleporters and bring unkillable monsters, but radios and common sense are clearly beyond them.

[Samseng Yik]

So far I treat stealth as positioning hero and taking down few enemies who not immune to KO.

Otherwise this is a hero tactic XCOM game

[Zebedee]

Kind of makes me appreciate more why so few games do try to blend stealth RTT and TB combat. Necromunda Underhive Wars was the last I remember, and they abandoned it as a bad idea in alpha testing (and it had consequences for the game designed around having it turning out quite as badly as it did on release).

It is possible to do some levels without fighting anything just by stealth takedowns on specific enemies. So there is that but, as OP says, the use of takedown immunity kills a lot of creativity and turns it more into 'how to whittle down the starting wave'. Agree with the point about it being a bit of a deadend part of gameplay without any way to improve items or abilities, and it becomes more of a chore to do it efficiently rather than giving a payoff of any kind.

I'd be more forgiving of it if it wasn't just so very, very clunky to use with the conga line, pathing issues, randomly not taking cover, the camera and map fighting against you, and occasionally just how aggressively fast the detection can be.

[Witterquick EQ]

I agree with the conga line reference. It's very clunky, and when you're leading with the thief, you don't get the half view cone that you should. The game basically states the other two unused characters "don't count," but then they count. Plus, even on the easiest difficulty, once an enemy sniffs you out, they are on top of you and revealing you before you can slip back into cover. There's little margin for error I think.

[TroubleProne]

Although I agree with some of your assessments, I disagree with your overall premise.

This isn't XCom mixed with Assasin's Creed. You should have figured that out when you saw how few Takedown charges each agent starts with. Stealth takedowns aren't meant to be overpowered or unrealistic. Each enemy encampment has a set amount of units, including those coming in on the reinforcement pads.

Case in point:

Sneak takedowns are designed to be initiated on units that aren't going to be discovered by a roaming patrol. Maybe try it just after they've left.

Tossing a lightning grenade on a unit in the middle of an enemy camp will probably elicit a strong, "Something's wrong, let's search the outskirts of camp for the enemy that threw this." response. DER.

And rushing your Bruiser in to knock several guys out is best used on roaming patrols at the apex of their routes...unless you WANT to start combat with them right in the center of camp.

Please stop dissing on the game because you'd like to see more stealth action. It's meant to be a turn-based tactical sim with "stealth elements".

I like your idea of upgrading the real time takedown moves. That would be great. Why don't you suggest that to the Devs?

As for luring out key enemies, congrats! You found a tried and true way REAL LIFE elite units are disposed of in REAL LIFE combat. Blow up their car with a missile at the airport stuff. Drug their drink at the bar. The game can't simulate everything. Give it a break.

It's only been released for a month now...be patient with them.

[Balantar]

Originally posted by TroubleProne:

Although I agree with some of your assessments, I disagree with your overall premise.

This isn't XCom mixed with Assasin's Creed. You should have figured that out when you saw how few Takedown charges each agent starts with. Stealth takedowns aren't meant to be overpowered or unrealistic. Each enemy encampment has a set amount of units, including those coming in on the reinforcement pads.

Case in point:

Sneak takedowns are designed to be initiated on units that aren't going to be discovered by a roaming patrol. Maybe try it just after they've left.

Tossing a lightning grenade on a unit in the middle of an enemy camp will probably elicit a strong, "Something's wrong, let's search the outskirts of camp for the enemy that threw this." response. DER.

And rushing your Bruiser in to knock several guys out is best used on roaming patrols at the apex of their routes...unless you WANT to start combat with them right in the center of camp.

Please stop dissing on the game because you'd like to see more stealth action. It's meant to be a turn-based tactical sim with "stealth elements".

I like your idea of upgrading the real time takedown moves. That would be great. Why don't you suggest that to the Devs?

As for luring out key enemies, congrats! You found a tried and true way REAL LIFE elite units are disposed of in REAL LIFE combat. Blow up their car with a missile at the airport stuff. Drug their drink at the bar. The game can't simulate everything. Give it a break.

It's only been released for a month now...be patient with them.

hmmm i agree with the idea but the implementation just does not work. bad ui, camera, silly take downs it would be a better game with out this