Sick and tired of DLC based wallet abuse?

[Robert Nutbar]

Im sick of wanting for a game and then realizing I need to pay 150$+ for the full experience.
(9 times out of 10) All DLC is a racket, where in, they can charge full price for an unfinished game; Then get the poor bastard player to buy the rest of it.

[dulany67]

I don't know man, I distinctly remember paying $39 for StarCraft: Brood War in like 2000.

[Cacomistle]

dulany67 eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know man, I distinctly remember paying $39 for StarCraft: Brood War in like 2000.

Well then the credit I gave brood war after not remembering its price is undeserved. Its even more expensive the expansion packs I remember buying.

[SBA77]

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Well all I can say is that's the way is used to be and it was a pretty good time. It wasn't that long ago either, about 10 years. You would still get content like Tomb Kings, but it would be in a sequel with a bunch of other stuff rather than having to pay an extra $ 20 for something that adds something really cool and substantive, that you probably aren't going to be able to keep permanently in the long run because you don't have a physical disc for it.

If I think of the games I played that had expansion packs, they'd be like the equivalent of a race pack.

The first game I played that had an expansion pack was starcraft 1. It gave you a new campaign, and a few new units. The campaign had a whole story attached to it, so I would argue it was greater than say a lord pack (where you get new mechanics for a campaign along with new units), but it would be less than a full race pack (where you're getting 4 semi-unique campaigns compared to 3 unique campaigns, but you're also getting a lot of new units). I would personally say a race pack is equivalent to what gets added with an expansion.

The other game I can remember having an expansion is command and conquer generals. I'm sure I played others that did, but those are the 2 that come to mind. Zero hour had a little bit more, cause it had a new campaigh for each of the 3 factions along with the new generals mode, so that's kind of like 4 separate things. Maybe that's like slightly more than tomb kings, but from what I recall it was it cost like $30 maybe even $40 (it was more than $20) so it was more expensive than tomb kings (brood war might have been too, but I do not remember how much it cost).

After that, I ended up playing console shooters for quite a while until starcraft 2 came out, and console shooters like call of duty had dlc.

So we move to starcraft 2 where it also had expansion packs... and it was basically the same sort of deal. You got 1 new campaign (instead of the 3 brood war had), a few new units per faction, and the campaign of course had a story instead of just a sandbox like total war. I'd compare them to a race pack, maybe a bit more cause they have to write a story. Again, like zero hour, I'm pretty sure heart of the swarm and legacy of the void were priced as their own games.

Very true, that's another thing about DLC, the vast range in quality. They can be as big and content filled as expansion packs, or as small adding themed armor that's themed after a specific franchise (e.g. that Dragon Age Origins themed armor for Mass Effect 2). It's not really a criticism, just a fact. Also in someways and for only a handful of DLCs, they essentially the digital form of the old expansion packs. Oh I also forgot to add, that this wasn't really the case for Starcraft's expansion, but all of expansions for strategy games would usually add a new faction maybe two in some cases.

[aquotla]

I've enjoyed all the DLC and have no problem paying for it. Maybe you're just miserable, OP?

[Cronik]

I wish there was more DLC if anything, the base game gave enough content to justify the price and so has each DLC, but I always get at 100-600hrs out of total war games.

[Elitewrecker PT]

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Ok so basically instead of warhammer 2, we'd get like a $60 expansion pack for Warhammer 1?

Or is the issue with the prices, in which case maybe vortex+mortal empires might be like a $30 dollar expansion, and maybe we get like the first half of the warhammer dlc's in one $25 expansion pack and the second half in the other, leading to an overall lower price for everything?

Cause to me that does make sense, cause if everything is grouped together they could probably justify lowering the price slightly (usually buying in bulk is cheaper). I can understand that. I don't think it would affect the value of the base game to me, but it would affect the value of the dlc's.

I'm not sure what would be personally preferable to me. I think I'd prefer dlc's still though, because the content is released more incrementally. If I get like 4-5 factions at once, I'm probably gonna play 2 and then take a break to play another game. I'd rather just get 2 at a time. And also I buy most dlc's for this game, but I don't buy them all, and a lot of other games I play I skip out on several dlc. If for example beastmen+wood elves was an expansion pack, I've never really cared for the beastmen so I'd basically just be paying extra for wood elves.

I'd like to say though that regardless of how the dlc's are packaged, I still would think of the base Warhammer games as basically 1-2 bedroom apartments compared to the full games being 3 story houses. I think something like expansion packs vs dlc's would basically be like lowering the cost of a full 3 story house (but also increasing the cost of say adding on an extra bedroom because it would be insisted that you would also have to pay for an extra bath).

Well all I can say is that's the way is used to be and it was a pretty good time. It wasn't that long ago either, about 10 years. You would still get content like Tomb Kings, but it would be in a sequel with a bunch of other stuff rather than having to pay an extra $ 20 for something that adds something really cool and substantive, that you probably aren't going to be able to keep permanently in the long run because you don't have a physical disc for it.

They would have even less of an incentive to do any background optimization if they released everything as expansions for WH1.
At least with WH2 and WH3 we know they can do broader core changes.

[Elitewrecker PT]

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

You know I'm also curious how much the game industry would make if more people bought their games sooner v. less people buying there game and buying their DLCs, or more people buying the game later. I'd assume they'd make more.

Three Kingdoms is an example. It sold overhwelmingly well at launch, not so much the post-launch support DLCs... and it gets canned.

[Gustavous II]

That the funny part, people think that dlc are needed to fix a game. Three kingdome still has a lot of bugs and broken meachanics. Then we can look at other games that can add so called "dlc" in a patch without paying anything. I agree that race dlc are good ones, but many of them comes out boring or unbalanced and broken. truth is still free mods add more effort in their mods than million dollar company, in their dlc:s

People think i hate dlc but that is because they can't read haha. I just hate bad practise and cutout contents. ;)

Statement stands, most of their dlc feels like cut outs, preorder to get an race "sheep alert" and dlc:s for and dlc faction that is bullsheat. And people say that is because people forced them make chaos an preorder locked faction what the actualy f. That doesn't explaind why gore dlc is still an dlc or that warhammer 3 also have an preorder race...

[Elitewrecker PT]

Gore is DLC because T rating

[dulany67]

GrinceCringe eredeti hozzászólása:

That the funny part, people think that dlc are needed to fix a game. Three kingdome still has a lot of bugs and broken meachanics. Then we can look at other games that can add so called "dlc" in a patch without paying anything. I agree that race dlc are good ones, but many of them comes out boring or unbalanced and broken. truth is still free mods add more effort in their mods than million dollar company, in their dlc:s

People think i hate dlc but that is because they can't read haha. I just hate bad practise and cutout contents. ;)

Statement stands, most of their dlc feels like cut outs, preorder to get an race "sheep alert" and dlc:s for and dlc faction that is bullsheat. And people say that is because people forced them make chaos an preorder locked faction what the actualy f. That doesn't explaind why gore dlc is still an dlc or that warhammer 3 also have an preorder race...

You know, I have every DLC for WH2, and yet I have mods also. It's OK to want both. And are you really surprised that some of the 5 million customers of WH are going to come up with better ideas than the 500 people who work for CA?

Is a preorder race cut content? Or is it content designed to be a preorder bonus? Who cares, it's free up to a week after release? You and CA can call it whatever you like, it's just part of the game to me.

[SBA77]

Elitewrecker PT eredeti hozzászólása:

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Cacomistle eredeti hozzászólása:

Ok so basically instead of warhammer 2, we'd get like a $60 expansion pack for Warhammer 1?

Or is the issue with the prices, in which case maybe vortex+mortal empires might be like a $30 dollar expansion, and maybe we get like the first half of the warhammer dlc's in one $25 expansion pack and the second half in the other, leading to an overall lower price for everything?

Cause to me that does make sense, cause if everything is grouped together they could probably justify lowering the price slightly (usually buying in bulk is cheaper). I can understand that. I don't think it would affect the value of the base game to me, but it would affect the value of the dlc's.

I'm not sure what would be personally preferable to me. I think I'd prefer dlc's still though, because the content is released more incrementally. If I get like 4-5 factions at once, I'm probably gonna play 2 and then take a break to play another game. I'd rather just get 2 at a time. And also I buy most dlc's for this game, but I don't buy them all, and a lot of other games I play I skip out on several dlc. If for example beastmen+wood elves was an expansion pack, I've never really cared for the beastmen so I'd basically just be paying extra for wood elves.

I'd like to say though that regardless of how the dlc's are packaged, I still would think of the base Warhammer games as basically 1-2 bedroom apartments compared to the full games being 3 story houses. I think something like expansion packs vs dlc's would basically be like lowering the cost of a full 3 story house (but also increasing the cost of say adding on an extra bedroom because it would be insisted that you would also have to pay for an extra bath).

Well all I can say is that's the way is used to be and it was a pretty good time. It wasn't that long ago either, about 10 years. You would still get content like Tomb Kings, but it would be in a sequel with a bunch of other stuff rather than having to pay an extra $ 20 for something that adds something really cool and substantive, that you probably aren't going to be able to keep permanently in the long run because you don't have a physical disc for it.

They would have even less of an incentive to do any background optimization if they released everything as expansions for WH1.
At least with WH2 and WH3 we know they can do broader core changes.

What? I'm not specifically talking about WH; the conversation I was having turned into discussion on DLC in general. This isn't about stuffing all the content from WH2 and 3 into one game, this about DLC. You do know when they released WH1 and WH2 they did just throw them out there and leave, they made and sold DLCs for them for ~4 years. You either missed the point or you are trying to misconstrue my statement because you are one of these people:

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Still kind of sad when you see people not only defending but advocating for a crappy practice like this. And yes, I am more referring to situations like what happened to 3K, and when people freak out over a perfectly functional game no longer being supported, or when they beg for more DLC.

[Elitewrecker PT]

I'm not misconstruing anything. Just one point on how releasing a bunch of content as sequels in this case can be preferable to everything as DLCs or even "old-school expansions".

[SBA77]

Elitewrecker PT eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not misconstruing anything. Just one point on how releasing a bunch of content as sequels in this case can be preferable to everything as DLCs or even "old-school expansions".

Yeah, I think it was the first guy's comments that made it seem like I was trying to argue that all the WH 2 and possibly 3 content should have just been stuffed into WH 1 as expansions. It wasn't. Also my argument was a lot more general and not specific to TWW. As you can tell I don't really like DLC in general all that much and think that the game industry's previous practices of adding content are preferable to what we have now. And I'll be honest, the main reason is that someone who still tries to get physical copies of game,I don't like the digital nature. It means those physical copies I'm after are incomplete and I still need to download DLCs to get that complete them, at least in most cases. What I was telling the other guy was that since he was so hung up on not getting the Tomb Kings if there were no DLCs for TWW2, I was saying how he could his Tomb Kings with the old system, and suggesting how it might be better, as they might also get their own story, and come with more content.

[Cacomistle]

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Elitewrecker PT eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not misconstruing anything. Just one point on how releasing a bunch of content as sequels in this case can be preferable to everything as DLCs or even "old-school expansions".

Yeah, I think it was the first guy's comments that made it seem like I was trying to argue that all the WH 2 and possibly 3 content should have just been stuffed into WH 1 as expansions. Also my argument was a lot more general and not specific to TWW. As you can tell I don't like DLC in general and think that the game industry's previous practices are preferable to what we have now. And I'll be honest, the main reason is that someone who still tries to get physical copies of game,I don't like the digital nature. It means those physical copies I'm after are incomplete and I still need to download DLCs to get that complete them, at least in most cases. What I was telling the other guy was that since he was so hung up on not getting the Tomb Kings if there were no DLCs for TWW2, I was saying how he could his Tomb Kings with the old system, and suggesting how it might be better, as they might also get their own story, and come with more content.

I don't think tomb kings would get their own story and content though.

If you go look at brood war for example, it released in the same year as starcraft 1. That's the same for most of these expansion packs.

CA seems to spend like 6-9 months on a race pack.

To me, race packs are expansion packs. They're the same amount of extra content. If this game were released in 2005 and they released a tomb kings expansion pack for $40, I think it would have fit right in.

But we get it for $20 because its a dlc instead of an expansion. They can't sell it for expansion prices when its not one.

Like, I think what you're thinking of is the wood elves. They had their own campaign associated with their dlc. I never touched it, and up to this point forgot it even exists. It was pretty clear people didn't want the WE specific campaign, they just wanted the race added in. And that's how I feel. If I had to pay an extra $20 for tomb kings because they came with some dumb campaign I didn't intend on ever even touching, I wouldn't have bought them at all (I think wood elves I waited for a sale)

[Elitewrecker PT]

SBA77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Elitewrecker PT eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not misconstruing anything. Just one point on how releasing a bunch of content as sequels in this case can be preferable to everything as DLCs or even "old-school expansions".

Yeah, I think it was the first guy's comments that made it seem like I was trying to argue that all the WH 2 and possibly 3 content should have just been stuffed into WH 1 as expansions. It wasn't. Also my argument was a lot more general and not specific to TWW. As you can tell I don't really like DLC in general all that much and think that the game industry's previous practices of adding content are preferable to what we have now. And I'll be honest, the main reason is that someone who still tries to get physical copies of game,I don't like the digital nature. It means those physical copies I'm after are incomplete and I still need to download DLCs to get that complete them, at least in most cases. What I was telling the other guy was that since he was so hung up on not getting the Tomb Kings if there were no DLCs for TWW2, I was saying how he could his Tomb Kings with the old system, and suggesting how it might be better, as they might also get their own story, and come with more content.

Physical PC games aren't remotely a thing anymore, they still rely on digital client activation.