Without alignements this game make no sense.

[kigraa]

My priestess of SHAR, godess of the night (use to be lawful EVIL), is using the "blood of lathander." a 3.5Ed lawful good artifact.....

Elminster (once neutral Good) in my camp is ok with a NPC undead 2 feet away from him......i love the game but my god, for RPG extremist like me...its hard to take it seriously...

[kregora]

I would say that Larian then would need to admit, that they didn't created origin characters with a good alignment.

[Dx2]

pinkscope původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

In 5e as specifically mentioned in the DMs guide, Oathbreakers are evil. PERIOD. Larian homebrewed the oathbreaker to be more of a shades of grey thing for BG3.

It says dark ambition OR evil power, you can be dark without being evil

not to mention, the actual subclass says nothing about alignment

yep and to just spice it up some short copypaste from forgotten realms lore:
An Oathbreaker paladin was one who had forsaken the divine oath they made, for a path in life of treachery, selfishness, or some other evil ends.

so its not need to be even dark or evil, its just oath what he dont anymore folow and oathbreaker dont have restrictions like other paladins who hold their orginal oath

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Dx2 původně napsal:

pinkscope původně napsal:

It says dark ambition OR evil power, you can be dark without being evil

not to mention, the actual subclass says nothing about alignment

yep and to just spice it up some short copypaste from forgotten realms lore:
An Oathbreaker paladin was one who had forsaken the divine oath they made, for a path in life of treachery, selfishness, or some other evil ends.

so its not need to be even dark or evil, its just oath what he dont anymore folow and oathbreaker dont have restrictions like other paladins who hold their orginal oath

What part of this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an EVIL power. A paladin MUST BE EVIL and at least 3rd level to become and oathbreaker." Page 97 DMs guide 5e.

Is not clear? There is a restriction. According to 5e rules they would have to be evil. Now we both know that the D&D golden rule exists so sure you can homebrew all you want but according to the actual guide yes there is a restriction.

[Yagger]

Vixzian původně napsal:

Dx2 původně napsal:

yep and to just spice it up some short copypaste from forgotten realms lore:
An Oathbreaker paladin was one who had forsaken the divine oath they made, for a path in life of treachery, selfishness, or some other evil ends.

so its not need to be even dark or evil, its just oath what he dont anymore folow and oathbreaker dont have restrictions like other paladins who hold their orginal oath

What part of this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an EVIL power. A paladin MUST BE EVIL and at least 3rd level to become and oathbreaker." Page 97 DMs guide 5e.

Is not clear?

the fact that theres been no thought put in when they wrote it

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Yagger původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

What part of this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an EVIL power. A paladin MUST BE EVIL and at least 3rd level to become and oathbreaker." Page 97 DMs guide 5e.

Is not clear?

the fact that theres been no thought put in when they wrote it

So by that same token I can just ignore anything in the guides and source material simply because I believe there was no thought put into them. Cool then why are there any debates on these forums at all?

[Yagger]

Vixzian původně napsal:

Yagger původně napsal:

the fact that theres been no thought put in when they wrote it

So by that same token I can just ignore anything in the guides simply because I believe there was no thought put into them.

yes, and the guides were never meant to be followed to the T . if that is what you do, you're not really a good member of the dnd community

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Yagger původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

So by that same token I can just ignore anything in the guides simply because I believe there was no thought put into them.

yes, and the guides were never meant to be followed to the T . if that is what you do, you're not really a good member of the dnd community

The guides set the stage for the world building. Alignment is a foundational part of D&D.

On the contrary. Being a good member of the D&D community means that you would understand how things like alignment work, how important it is for world building along with things like cultural differences, economic differences, world physics, racial enmities, etc. and how those things create the depth of said settings and the interactions that characters will have in their journey.

What D&D is not is some make anything and everything up as you go if that were the case then it could not be differentiated from anything else out there at all and guides wouldn't have ever been needed. You'd just have the golden rule and that's it. The idea is to create immersive settings and most humans draw from the real world for that.

[Yagger]

Vixzian původně napsal:

Yagger původně napsal:

yes, and the guides were never meant to be followed to the T . if that is what you do, you're not really a good member of the dnd community

The guides set the stage for the world building. Alignment is a foundational part of D&D.

On the contrary. Being a good member of the D&D community means that you would understand how things like alignment work, how important it is for world building along with things like cultural differences, economic differences, world physics, racial enmities, etc. and how those things create the depth of said settings and the interactions that characters will have in their journey.

What D&D is not is some make anything and everything up as you go if that were the case then it could not be differentiated from anything else out there at all and guides wouldn't have ever been needed. You'd just have the golden rule and that's it.

again you can have your alignment , but not with racial or class restrictions, everythings better when you can build your character the way you want, ie Paladin/druid

[Dx2]

Vixzian původně napsal:

Dx2 původně napsal:

yep and to just spice it up some short copypaste from forgotten realms lore:
An Oathbreaker paladin was one who had forsaken the divine oath they made, for a path in life of treachery, selfishness, or some other evil ends.

so its not need to be even dark or evil, its just oath what he dont anymore folow and oathbreaker dont have restrictions like other paladins who hold their orginal oath

What part of this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an EVIL power. A paladin MUST BE EVIL and at least 3rd level to become and oathbreaker." Page 97 DMs guide 5e.

Is not clear? There is a restriction. According to 5e rules they would have to be evil. Now we both know that the D&D golden rule exists so sure you can homebrew all you want but according to the actual guide yes there is a restriction.

you are so lost, lets take example oath for crown if queen and land fail and paladin break oath becouse they dont folow orginal path, how it make him evil or anything, he simple dont folow anymore oath what he sworn for queen and land, becouse their values dont meet anymore and by that he is automaticly oathbreaker and didnt do single evil or dark thing...this just one example, i could slam these all day long :D

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Dx2 původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

What part of this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an EVIL power. A paladin MUST BE EVIL and at least 3rd level to become and oathbreaker." Page 97 DMs guide 5e.

Is not clear? There is a restriction. According to 5e rules they would have to be evil. Now we both know that the D&D golden rule exists so sure you can homebrew all you want but according to the actual guide yes there is a restriction.

you are so lost, lets take example oath for crown if queen and land fail and paladin break oath becouse they dont folow orginal path, how it make him evil or anything, he simple dont folow anymore oath what he sworn for queen and land, becouse their values dont meet anymore and by that he is automaticly oathbreaker and didnt do single evil or dark thing...this just one example, i could slam these all day long :D

lol no you're lost here. They break their oath in the guides because their oath wasn't broken due to some general happenstance issue where they didn't follow some rule to the letter. They broke their oath because they purposefully pursued a dark and evil ambition. That's the difference. BG3 folllows more along the lines of what you are portraying. The D&D rule set does not.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Yagger původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

The guides set the stage for the world building. Alignment is a foundational part of D&D.

On the contrary. Being a good member of the D&D community means that you would understand how things like alignment work, how important it is for world building along with things like cultural differences, economic differences, world physics, racial enmities, etc. and how those things create the depth of said settings and the interactions that characters will have in their journey.

What D&D is not is some make anything and everything up as you go if that were the case then it could not be differentiated from anything else out there at all and guides wouldn't have ever been needed. You'd just have the golden rule and that's it.

again you can have your alignment , but not with racial or class restrictions, everythings better when you can build your character the way you want, ie Paladin/druid

Racial and class restrictions exist because they always have. If a Zulu warrior is trained from an early age to become a spear master and fights using a specific set of skills then how likely is it that anyone outside of Africa would know that skill set outside of that race to be taught that class??

It's the very same for the Elven bladesinger. In D&D these things aren't for the purpose of creating exclusion they are created for the purpose of making characters feel unique. If anyone can do it, that kind of takes away from it all.

[Yagger]

Vixzian původně napsal:

Yagger původně napsal:

again you can have your alignment , but not with racial or class restrictions, everythings better when you can build your character the way you want, ie Paladin/druid

Racial and class restrictions exist because they always have. If a Zulu warrior is trained from an early age to become a spear master and fights using a specific set of skills then how likely is it that anyone outside of Africa would know that skill set outside of that race to be taught that class??

It's the very same for the Elven bladesinger.

you wana try that again? you're spouting nonsense.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Yagger původně napsal:

Vixzian původně napsal:

Racial and class restrictions exist because they always have. If a Zulu warrior is trained from an early age to become a spear master and fights using a specific set of skills then how likely is it that anyone outside of Africa would know that skill set outside of that race to be taught that class??

It's the very same for the Elven bladesinger.

you wana try that again? you're spouting nonsense.

You want to actually rebut vs. make ridiculous claims?

[Dx2]

Paladins that dedicated their service to queen and country, those who promised to uphold the ideals of civilized lands, swore the Oath of the Crown.

it works vice versa, paladin cant folow oath what he sworn if queen decided go nuts, since they need to be loyalty for crown but if they dont folow queen they arent loyal anymore for crown even they hold up for ideals of civilized lands, so they are oathbreaker in that point, loyalty for crown is broken...its not so black and white u like it to be, get over it

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Dx2 původně napsal:

Paladins that dedicated their service to queen and country, those who promised to uphold the ideals of civilized lands, swore the Oath of the Crown.

it works vice versa, paladin cant folow oath what he sworn if queen decided go nuts, since they need to be loyalty for crown but if they dont folow queen they arent loyal anymore for crown even they hold up for ideals of civilized lands, so they are oathbreaker in that point, loyalty for crown is broken...its not so black and white u like it to be, get over it

Again you keep speaking about the BG3 homebrew version of the oathbreaker. Not sure why you continue to argue this point. In the BG3 version you would be correct.