Destiny 2

Destiny 2

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Tarnil Corvax 22 Aug, 2021 @ 12:07pm
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Is there any better way to say you don't value a player's time than with the current power system?
I get it, you want to constantly give players something to do. But this is NOT the right way to do it. The way the current system is designed is clearly designed with a lack of content in mind and intended to just get players to keep playing. It creates an artificial goal on top of the RNG drops, and I foresee that it will get old really quickly and will drive me (and others, particularly potential new players) away from the game. At this point in time, it's what's keeping me from spending money on the game. And I will explain why in the following.



The game has lots of issues. A good handful of toxic players which undoubtedly discourage new players. Hackers infest PVP, PVP matchmaking is awful. PVP is awfully balanced.

Very unfriendly to new players and older players alike. No actual tool except for unreliable outside sources (light.gg) to compare and check which gear to keep and throw. You could have a god-roll and accidentally discard it if you don't go out of your way to study the meta.

The mods on the Steam forums actually go out of their way to censor those who complain about the game, particularly those who post proof of cheaters. This doesn't fill me with confidence.


The new writing seems lacking but I haven't been able to experience the prior writing, so I have little to compare it to by Destiny standards. I'm coming at this from a general standpoint and not from someone who has played the previous campaigns (because I can't).

There are a bunch of negative reviews or posts that talk about other aspects, the greedy cosmetics, and all that, but for the sake of time, I will not reiterate those. You can find them quite easily.


And I'm not going to go over the positives for the sake of time but take my word for it that I'm not ripping on the game to tell everyone it sucks I'm ripping on it because it genuinely has problems that if addressed could help the game immensely.


But none of the problems I have listed harm the game more than the current power system.


The power system demands a lot of endless dedication, making the player grind just to keep up with everyone else and the updated power value strikes and missions while leaving them feeling empty, as if they haven't gotten any more powerful but just accomplished a chore to get the privilege to access certain aspects of the game. This might be fine for those who dedicate their lives to just playing Destiny 2, but for the casual player, this is a nightmare. And as someone who doesn't choose one game to dedicate their life to, I not only feel left out but unwelcome.



They restrict grandmaster nightfalls behind a power level that updates every season. This means it relies on players grinding to get access to it, rather than proving they are competent.

Rather than proving they are experienced at the game and earning the right to participate in challenging aspects of the game, it instead becomes a grind-fest for the privilege to experience what the game has to offer, because you have been a good enough pet to do your grinding and weeklies.



It'd be one thing to be able to do some missions to get items to be able to upgrade certain gear to the new seasonal power limit (even though I don't necessarily like that idea because it would be incredibly unfriendly to new players and if not done really well it could easily mislead players and pave way for new players to be dogpiled in forums by players saying "ur fault" instead of holding the game accountable for a lack of communication, guaranteeing their swift departure from the community.) So under said system you could find ways to upgrade the power level instead of having to constantly find drops and then waiting until you have the highest seasonal power limit before using any upgrade modules. Still, this solution seems like a bandaid on a shattered bone, and I foresee the best method to just be to remove it entirely.



Usually, power values are used as a means to show someone is experienced and has played the game enough to know what to do. The thing is this game uses it in this context, but constantly updates it, not because there's anything new to learn but because it just wants you to play more. This doesn't make me feel confident in the game, as it values this awfully implemented power scale to keep players hooked rather than more honest aspects of the game, such as, you know, the game being fun? But things like this make the game less fun. You can get by without god-rolls, and once the player figures out what weapons to upgrade and masterwork with no help from the game, you can grind for materials to upgrade a weapon... I wouldn't say in the best, most player-friendly way, but still decently well and it's still much more acceptable than how the power system functions.



The system de-incentivizes using resources because things will become outdated soon. Perhaps not in perks or stats, but in power level. Well, if it has a god-roll, you'd upgrade it fully and then just use upgrade modules, but this isn't a fun or intuitive way to keep gear up to date and that's solely where you want to use the upgrade modules, otherwise, you're wasting them. And since finding god-rolls is fairly unintuitive for new players (It's much better to figure out for armor than weapons, and I already have gone over light.gg not being the best source) it just results in the player waiting and waiting and waiting until they find something they are confident enough to spend resources on. The alternative is being too liberal with resources and just end up not having enough.







The thing is, I don't see the game having much shelf time not just for me, but more importantly I think these issues are going to drive other people away as well. If the game itself wasn't my cup of tea because of core gameplay features and things that would require everything about the current game that people love to be changed, I'd have moved on by now and found another game to play.


I've tried talking about other problems in Steam forums. I've received some support and some people have even attempted to challenge my views in a friendly manner, but for the most part, I have been told to just gtfo and find another game because I don't appreciate the game like they do. In their defense, I have been more negative than positive, and I understand that being defensive is a natural response. I have concluded that my presentation hasn't been the most effective for people who are fiercely loyal to the game. I don't beat around the bush or put things sweetly, and I tend to focus on the negatives, especially in forum posts dedicated to focusing on the negatives. But more often than not people will see an isolated forum post and then conclude that the person must hate the game because they have something to complain about.



If a good chunk of the playerbase actually demanded quality over... not, and used their loyalty to this game to fuel their desire to see it become the best it can be rather than become defensive whenever someone says it isn't perfect, this game could be much more. But until they actually do that, they're going to be stuck with whatever. And I'm not going to let this game become the new Star Conflict for me, a game with great gameplay but awful grinding mechanics, similar to this game but Star conflict's grind was even worse than this game's, at least I observe such at the moment.



I just don't see the devs focusing on either the small issues (such as the inability to customize your guardian's appearance outside of initial character creation, or the chambering rounds in guns regardless if the magazine was empty or not resulting in the chambering animation overstaying its welcome, or the ability to have a consistent armor ornament loadout that overrides the appearance of all armor you wear instead of requiring you to tediously change the appearance of every new piece you get) nor the large ones (PVP balancing, generally what I have gone over in this post.) If they don't show me they care about their game or their players, where is the incentive to stick around and spend money?



There are many games out there to play, and this game has to fight with the others, as games should, for my (and others'... have to clarify that, unfortunately) time, dedication, and money. And it's fought well enough for my time, and enough for my dedication to this point to actually give my two cents on the game regardless of hostile responses (thanks to others in the community who are much more understanding and helpful. I probably wouldn't have even bothered if I saw the community as entirely toxic and defensive, but the reassurance provided by those who are more open-minded and friendly has led me to not believe that no one wants to know, regardless of however many others may take this post negatively and as a personal attack.)



Grinding power levels is boring, and it's actually pushing me away from the game, rather than inflating my playtime like they intended it to do. When I play a game, I expect it to respect my time. Especially if it expects me to spend money on it. I can't imagine grinding to a new power cap every season, it must be the most boring part of the entire game.



I've looked into this, and the most common opposition I have read against removing the power level or reworking it is "it's literally an MMO it NEEDS to have numbers go up." I'm not going to deny that there are some people out there that all you need to do to satisfy them is to make a number increase, and for the most part it is a valid game feature that should be considered. But not here, not in this situation.

It's literally just a time sink, which also affects how players perform by influencing their damage and such and locking content so you feel obligated to get it, so it's not just a status thing. So you couldn't ignore the number even if you wanted to.



If people can't be satisfied by the core gameplay and the bunch of rng drops they already have implemented in their game, maybe there's something wrong with the game, and you'd be deluding yourself to believe a number you tirelessly grind towards every season is somehow going to fix it. If you don't like the game enough to play it without constantly increasing some lousy number for the sake of seeing it increasing, you're basically admitting that the game itself doesn't have enough replayability or content to keep you satisfied. How could you then, with an honest conscience, recommend the game to other people? Or maybe you don't. I see constant complaining about the "stupid newbies don't understand this masterpiece of a game."



Either way, for those who somehow think this number is important, does this feature really mean that much to you, that you're willing to drive away new and old players alike just to see some number go up? I've already mentioned that out of everything that's wrong with the game, this is the thing that convinces me I'm not going to stick around with it for much longer, and I have no doubt that countless other people think the same way.







TL:DR:

The current power system serves no function other than to artificially inflate playtime, but for casual players, it is an unpleasant experience and detracts from the rest of the game. It'd be one thing to grind once, or even if the grinding wasn't that bad and tedious and didn't require that much dedication. But as it currently stands, it's poo-poo.

UPDATE: Access a trimmed version of the critique here. Mostly for those who just want to voice their opinions elsewhere or see other people's opinions from another forum. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/259474739?sort=0&page=0
Last edited by Tarnil Corvax; 31 Aug, 2021 @ 6:36pm
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
Lenn 22 Aug, 2021 @ 12:30pm 
Agree 100%
I play Final Fantasy XIV, Guild Wars 2, Genshin Impact, just to name a few games.
One is a sub based MMO, the other a buy to play MMO, the third a F2P gacha game, and yet I'd have to cut two of them(if not all 3 of them) out of the equation to even stay up to date on a weekly basis in Destiny 2. Left this game when Sunsetting hit and all my favourite gear got locked away forever.
Last edited by Lenn; 22 Aug, 2021 @ 12:35pm
Anti Homeless Rock 24 Aug, 2021 @ 12:05am 
I can play for a few hours a night, and still keep up on the light level bumps with little, to no problems lol
swamplord 24 Aug, 2021 @ 5:58am 
They could double the drop rate of umbrals and make them all +1 power level and I wouldn't mind. Then you could use the focuser or whatever to even out your gear score.
Avalanche 24 Aug, 2021 @ 10:32am 
Lets got also add in the seasonal artefact that basically forces you to use specific weapons to do content with Champions in it.

Last season, it was Auto Rifle, SMG and an exotic bow and i had all the ammo mods sorted, but i am sure this season will force me to use handcannons or sidearms.....i HATE those weapons.
[Eulso] vapSHOCK 24 Aug, 2021 @ 12:20pm 
I just did similar post. And then saw yours.



Im ashamed.
Tarnil Corvax 31 Aug, 2021 @ 6:35pm 
UPDATE: I referenced this critique in the destiny forums one, I figured it was only fair to do vice-versa. Let you guys see what others have to say about it, give you the opportunity to voice your opinion there if you so desire.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/259474739?sort=0&page=0
Last edited by Tarnil Corvax; 31 Aug, 2021 @ 6:36pm
Pvp's biggest problem is also it P2p grabage
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