Why not auto matchmaking for raids and dungeons!?

[Thunder]

Why is it that the game code does not do auto-matchmaking for raids and dungeons? Just like strikes.... a lot of people cant do raids or dungeons because they dont have a lot of friends playing destiny.... Usually u have 1-2 friends playing the game. Not 6.... It sucks.

[Sterling]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GM Pax:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sterling:

, but the moment they have to socialize with random people in a raid to try to figure things out,

... you mean, the people who refuse to use voice chat? The people who have no MIC, or just won't use it?

How is one supposed to socialize with them, exactly??

A wonderful and alien concept called "be the change you want to see in the world". People being negligent is part of online gaming, and these things aren't limited to a possible matchmaking. Random people from LFG chats and servers are still random and are susceptible to the same things people criticize the matchmaking system for. Personally, I always enjoyed teaming up with completely random people and finding out they were actually willing to work together to overcome an obstacle, which is absolutely more fun to me than "uh ur watchin a video 1st n den were goin in also ur talkin or kicked". Nothing beats the feeling of accidental interpersonal chemistry to me, and while I can understand people who don't feel the same way, disrespect towards it crosses the line that I politely call "I'm a ♥♥♥♥", where the user who crosses it is, by my subjective and personal definitions, a mongoloid.

[A Suspicious Crayon]

You all should at some point realise that Sterling will find excuses for anything. He is always right and superior to all of us. Just leave him in his own little dreamworld. Answer was provided gazillion times, Raids and 950+ nightfalls are challenging activities and especially raids require communication since some encounters simply need call outs.

[cowinspace]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sterling:

You haven't even told me what makes the dungeon not have matchmaking

I have one (1) raid to my name (Leviathan). I did it in a group of five newbies and one experienced guide. Two people in that game did not have mics but were still on Discord. It took us five hours to complete and we wiped many times. This is how the raid went;

You spawn and head up to the entrance.
You progress into the Castellum.
You must now find the door with the seal showing a standard with another door's emblem.
Now the team work starts. Two runners must go to the door with the emblem shown and retrieve a standard. Four guards have to hold off endless waves of Cabal.
Once the first standard is dropped elites spawn and, worse, Psions that make those elites invulnerable. If your guards aren't calling out invulverables then you risk being overrun and the standard being reset.
Once you unlock the door you are into the challenges.

Challenges resrict each player to only rez another teammate once per challenge. Keep that in mind.

Our first was the Gauntlet. I think we wiped more times in there than in the rest of the raid put together. It will be familiar if you have played the Menagerie.
Four pillars stand in front of our symbols with two of those having orb slots. There are three lit arrows beneath the symbols.
Four shooters must stand on the pillars. This will spawn three waves of enemies culminating in four elite centurions. So far so good.
Two runners now take the orbs that have spawned and run the gauntlet.
As they approach each symbol they will be faced with a 9x9 grid of circles. One of those will be red ONLY if a shooter is on a pillar.
The runner will tell the shooters that they have a top/middle/bottom at "symbol".
The shooters must shoot the arrows that DO NOT match. e.g. "Middle Cup" means the shooters must shoot top and bottom at cup.
You must hit both at nearly the same time. So shooters are generally focussed on TWO sets of arrows.
Once the gate is passed a psion will spawn infront of the pillar and the shooter must kill them or they will wipe the entire team. They also spawn more psions over time so the shooters have to stop them AND get back in position for the second runner.
Random elite Centurions can spawn in front of the shooters as well.
This repeats three times then the whole team has to grab the retrieved orbs and run the gauntlet.
If you were lucky and got six orbs from three runs then only four of you need to make it to the end.
BUT now you all have a limited time to run to each grind and refresh your orb BUT only four orbs can be refreshed at each grid. This means you need a co-ordinated relay with each runner only taking an orb at every other grid.
And that is the Gauntlet cleared. Without co-ordination this is IMPOSSIBLE. You literally cannot do it without mics on at least the two runners.

Now do the doors, again.

Second challenge was the Pleasure Gardens.
First clear the room of trash mobs.
Now there are two crystals. The challenge only starts when both are picked up at the same time.
When they are picked up (by the two spotters) two of eight plants on the ground will light up and six dogs will spawn (and go to six of the eight plants).
The four roamers must descend to a safe room and grab spores.
The non-crystal members must SNEAK to these plants without alerting the six guard dogs. No running, no getting seen, no shooting.
Once at the plants the spotters will "fire" at the plant to give the team a buff.
They must then sneak to the second plant and do the same.
Spotters must also deal with mobs that spawn as the crystal beams do not count as gun fire.
Now they must, in unision attack one dog each but not kill them.
This will spawn waves of "not the dog you're looking for"s.
They must then run to the safe room before time runs out and everything in the room is killed.
You then repeat this again.
There are a maximum of three chances. If you kill some dogs but not all then the time you have before the room is wiped is reduced, by a lot.
Again, without mics to coordinate at least the spotters and one roamer this is nigh on impossible.

Do the doors, *again*.

Third challenge, Royal Pools.

There are four platforms with orbs on them. They convey a buff that protects you from the water in the pools.
In the centre of the room is a building with another platform and an orb.
Also in this room are the targets. Protected lanterns whose cages are only lowered when all four platforms are occupied.
The team must split into two groups of three (left side, right side).
Two members stand on the platforms whilst the third runs to the centre.
They then replace one of the members on the platforms before the buff runs out.
That member runs to the centre, then to the other member.
So L3 replaces L1, L1 replaces L2,L2 replaces L3, until you get the honk of success.
Now you all run to the centre platform where the three sets of three lanterns are exposed.
You do the shooty and hopefully do not have to repeat.
You are also under constant assault by cabal and each platform will be attacked by elites at regular intervals.
Sounds easy but this is relentless an you MUST call out deaths as fast as possible.
This might be possible without comms though.

Now it's the boss fight. (I can't remember if we had to do the doors again, just assume you do).
The room has Calus' throne in the centre and four symbol platforms around it.
Calus is sitting there all high and mighty (literally). Shoot his cup to get the show going.
First stage is easy, kill the adds and don't die.
Now the team splits into two groups, punchers and callouts.
You get sucked into a shadow realm with a giant Calus head a small purple barrier and three orbs.
Punchers jump the barrier and grab an orb, returning to the throne room.
Callouts stay behind the purple barrier and inside the shadow realm.
Each callout will see a different symbol and call it out.
Punchers now punch the psion on top of the platform that was NOT called out (while being mobbed).
Callouts now get sucked forward and repeat, but now they have to deal with enemies.
This goes on for three bouts.
Now Calus has an energy shield and is slowly killing the punchers.
The Callouts will see Calus vomit skulls that they can shoot for a buff.
Skulls stop when punchers drop the shield so punchers must try to hold out.
Now comes the DPS. Players can jump onto the platforms for yet another buff letting them damage Calus. They rotate between the platforms to maximise damage.
If an player touches a platform it loses the buff so you must stick together and not jump around.
If you don't kill him then this repeats but the shadow realm will now have holes making it more likely that you'll fail.
This is, obviously, IMPOSSIBLE without three mic'd up players as Callouts.

And that is Leviathan. Hopefully you understand that this is a bit more complex than a strike or even a nightfall.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από cowinspace:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sterling:

You haven't even told me what makes the dungeon not have matchmaking

I have one (1) raid to my name (Leviathan). I did it in a group of five newbies and one experienced guide. Two people in that game did not have mics but were still on Discord. It took us five hours to complete and we wiped many times. This is how the raid went;

You spawn and head up to the entrance.
You progress into the Castellum.
You must now find the door with the seal showing a standard with another door's emblem.
Now the team work starts. Two runners must go to the door with the emblem shown and retrieve a standard. Four guards have to hold off endless waves of Cabal.
Once the first standard is dropped elites spawn and, worse, Psions that make those elites invulnerable. If your guards aren't calling out invulverables then you risk being overrun and the standard being reset.
Once you unlock the door you are into the challenges.

Challenges resrict each player to only rez another teammate once per challenge. Keep that in mind.

Our first was the Gauntlet. I think we wiped more times in there than in the rest of the raid put together. It will be familiar if you have played the Menagerie.
Four pillars stand in front of our symbols with two of those having orb slots. There are three lit arrows beneath the symbols.
Four shooters must stand on the pillars. This will spawn three waves of enemies culminating in four elite centurions. So far so good.
Two runners now take the orbs that have spawned and run the gauntlet.
As they approach each symbol they will be faced with a 9x9 grid of circles. One of those will be red ONLY if a shooter is on a pillar.
The runner will tell the shooters that they have a top/middle/bottom at "symbol".
The shooters must shoot the arrows that DO NOT match. e.g. "Middle Cup" means the shooters must shoot top and bottom at cup.
You must hit both at nearly the same time. So shooters are generally focussed on TWO sets of arrows.
Once the gate is passed a psion will spawn infront of the pillar and the shooter must kill them or they will wipe the entire team. They also spawn more psions over time so the shooters have to stop them AND get back in position for the second runner.
Random elite Centurions can spawn in front of the shooters as well.
This repeats three times then the whole team has to grab the retrieved orbs and run the gauntlet.
If you were lucky and got six orbs from three runs then only four of you need to make it to the end.
BUT now you all have a limited time to run to each grind and refresh your orb BUT only four orbs can be refreshed at each grid. This means you need a co-ordinated relay with each runner only taking an orb at every other grid.
And that is the Gauntlet cleared. Without co-ordination this is IMPOSSIBLE. You literally cannot do it without mics on at least the two runners.

Now do the doors, again.

Second challenge was the Pleasure Gardens.
First clear the room of trash mobs.
Now there are two crystals. The challenge only starts when both are picked up at the same time.
When they are picked up (by the two spotters) two of eight plants on the ground will light up and six dogs will spawn (and go to six of the eight plants).
The four roamers must descend to a safe room and grab spores.
The non-crystal members must SNEAK to these plants without alerting the six guard dogs. No running, no getting seen, no shooting.
Once at the plants the spotters will "fire" at the plant to give the team a buff.
They must then sneak to the second plant and do the same.
Spotters must also deal with mobs that spawn as the crystal beams do not count as gun fire.
Now they must, in unision attack one dog each but not kill them.
This will spawn waves of "not the dog you're looking for"s.
They must then run to the safe room before time runs out and everything in the room is killed.
You then repeat this again.
There are a maximum of three chances. If you kill some dogs but not all then the time you have before the room is wiped is reduced, by a lot.
Again, without mics to coordinate at least the spotters and one roamer this is nigh on impossible.

Do the doors, *again*.

Third challenge, Royal Pools.

There are four platforms with orbs on them. They convey a buff that protects you from the water in the pools.
In the centre of the room is a building with another platform and an orb.
Also in this room are the targets. Protected lanterns whose cages are only lowered when all four platforms are occupied.
The team must split into two groups of three (left side, right side).
Two members stand on the platforms whilst the third runs to the centre.
They then replace one of the members on the platforms before the buff runs out.
That member runs to the centre, then to the other member.
So L3 replaces L1, L1 replaces L2,L2 replaces L3, until you get the honk of success.
Now you all run to the centre platform where the three sets of three lanterns are exposed.
You do the shooty and hopefully do not have to repeat.
You are also under constant assault by cabal and each platform will be attacked by elites at regular intervals.
Sounds easy but this is relentless an you MUST call out deaths as fast as possible.
This might be possible without comms though.

Now it's the boss fight. (I can't remember if we had to do the doors again, just assume you do).
The room has Calus' throne in the centre and four symbol platforms around it.
Calus is sitting there all high and mighty (literally). Shoot his cup to get the show going.
First stage is easy, kill the adds and don't die.
Now the team splits into two groups, punchers and callouts.
You get sucked into a shadow realm with a giant Calus head a small purple barrier and three orbs.
Punchers jump the barrier and grab an orb, returning to the throne room.
Callouts stay behind the purple barrier and inside the shadow realm.
Each callout will see a different symbol and call it out.
Punchers now punch the psion on top of the platform that was NOT called out (while being mobbed).
Callouts now get sucked forward and repeat, but now they have to deal with enemies.
This goes on for three bouts.
Now Calus has an energy shield and is slowly killing the punchers.
The Callouts will see Calus vomit skulls that they can shoot for a buff.
Skulls stop when punchers drop the shield so punchers must try to hold out.
Now comes the DPS. Players can jump onto the platforms for yet another buff letting them damage Calus. They rotate between the platforms to maximise damage.
If an player touches a platform it loses the buff so you must stick together and not jump around.
If you don't kill him then this repeats but the shadow realm will now have holes making it more likely that you'll fail.
This is, obviously, IMPOSSIBLE without three mic'd up players as Callouts.

And that is Leviathan. Hopefully you understand that this is a bit more complex than a strike or even a nightfall.

Castellum ( THe doors you are reffering for) is completely optionial. Its worth doing the first time, but not the seconth and third time.

[cowinspace]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από NaliWarcow:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από cowinspace:

snip

Castellum ( THe doors you are reffering for) is completely optionial. Its worth doing the first time, but not the seconth and third time.

Yeah, our guide showed us the secret passages. But what chance do you think there is of a PUG knowing how to access them, knowing where to go, and knowing how to navigate the bowels?

Our guide got turned around leading us to our loot and he had a map.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από cowinspace:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από NaliWarcow:

Castellum ( THe doors you are reffering for) is completely optionial. Its worth doing the first time, but not the seconth and third time.

Yeah, our guide showed us the secret passages. But what chance do you think there is of a PUG knowing how to access them, knowing where to go, and knowing how to navigate the bowels?

Our guide got turned around leading us to our loot and he had a map. :D:

Oh, No, I am with ya, I just said it was optionial :P

[Sterling]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από cowinspace:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sterling:

You haven't even told me what makes the dungeon not have matchmaking

And that is Leviathan. Hopefully you understand that this is a bit more complex than a strike or even a nightfall.

Like, I really appreciate the dedication in writing all of that, but... my comment that you quoted talks about dungeons, not raids. I never denied the complexity of raids; I was talking about dungeons and just don't understand what's so special about them, given that what little I've tried was basically a strike with ten whole extra seconds of thinking, and nobody so far has given me a proper answer to that, just "u havnt pleyd" without actually telling me what's so bad and anti-matchmaking about what I haven't played.

[primobrainlet]

Raids you really should find a group for, but dungeons? They should have matchmaking, they are all very easy

and whisper of the worm could use matchmaking tbh. Even if someone screws up, its only hindering them, you can still solo it fairly easily

[Sergeant_Braken]

Honestly, they should make raids more accessible. Leave the current raid difficulty (or make a harder one) for the people who want an uber challenge. But only tie cosmetics behind that (so they still have something to show off with).

Lore and exotics/catalysts really shouldn't be locked behind content that only a tiny fraction of the playerbase will see.

Plus, there's the absolutely baffling situation of having a game that's pushed as a MMO, with teamwork-intensive content, that doesn't have basic social/communication systems that any self-respecting MMO has. There's no LFG or general chat. Hell, you have to OPT-IN to just see chat. And you can only see one channel at a time, with no way to see what has been said before you joined a channel.

I'm so sick of elitists hurting games, just because they have fragile egos...

[Brush115]

Have you played Spire of stars or Crown of Sorrow? Imagine trying to complete those with a team of randoms

[GM Pax]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sterling:

A wonderful and alien concept called "be the change you want to see in the world".

I want to see people using voice comms. That means I want to see people owning, and using, a MIC.

So ... /kick the ones who don't and won't. Gotcha.

[Gannibal Kujoe]

Bungie never created a game open enough for people to randomly enter raids. Conversely, Bungie will have to deal with far more competition coming into this territory, of loot arenas. My answer to this problem is just to wait. I know why Bungie left Activision; I saw it on Friday. Creating raids for randoms and raids for dedicated clans shouldn't be hard.

There should be clan quest line stories. And random stories, simple as that. When you are part of a clan you do a set number of quest that opens up raids that only clans can do. When you do random raids you should work through a quest line that builds up through strikes, nightfalls, and events that allows you to match those with the same requirements. Like attunements in WOW.

The prior quest will set up and have you deal with what the raids will be like. That way Randoms will learn the raid through the quest. Just that simple, either Bungie isn't that adept, or they don't have the cash to make this so.

They borrowed WOW's gem crafting and slotting they should have borrowed story and gameplay elements also. This is an easily fixed problem Bungie is just complacent, and knows a niche core group of gamers with their egos wrapped up in a videogame will back them. Blizzard will fix it. Bet on it.

Also stop with the Casual BS. Many of you built your identities on videogames and that is going to hurt in the long run. Actual casual gamers just won't player this. I know I have tried to get them into it, and they refused. But they going to play OW2 though. The people asking for matchmaking Raids are people who want to support the game but do not have time for clans. They won't mind speaking on discord randomly and going their ways, but the commitment to a clan is asking a lot. Either because of work, life, or preference. Calling these people casual is idiotic and you're only hurting Bungie.

Bungie couldn't hack it next to wow, where do you think they go if they can't hack it on steam? If they were doing great with Activision Blizzard wouldn't that company have tried hard to keep them? They watched them leave and created OW2 with PVE. What does that tell you about how much they valued this IP? I love this game, but I can be honest about what it is. Call me casual all you want, guarantee Bungie wants that casual money.

Raids can be taught through questing, simple as that. Everybody learns the game differently. But as of now, I am guessing Bungie gates content, to make their PVP viable. I notice there is absolutely no part of PVP that is gated. Building pvp takes considerably less work.

But, I'm just going to wait, till next year. Trust me nobody is fighting Bungie for their game.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Davy Jones:

Raids you really should find a group for, but dungeons? They should have matchmaking, they are all very easy

and whisper of the worm could use matchmaking tbh. Even if someone screws up, its only hindering them, you can still solo it fairly easily

Whisper and outbreak arnt true dungeans. They are just strikes with platforming elements and on a timer.

Shattered Throne and the new pit are dungeans.

[GM Pax]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Blackstar:

Also stop with the Casual BS. Many of you built your identities on videogames and that is going to hurt in the long run. Actual casual gamers just won't player this.

I am a casual gamer. At most games, I outright suck.

And yet, not only am I playing Destiny 2, I've already bought both Forsaken and Shadowkeep. (And $20 worth of Silver, but that's all gone now ... )

But they going to play OW2 though.

Because they want a different sort of game entirely. Not because they are casual.

The people asking for matchmaking Raids are people who want to support the game but do not have time for clans. They won't mind speaking on discord randomly and going their ways, but the commitment to a clan is asking a lot. Either because of work, life, or preference. Calling these people casual is idiotic and you're only hurting Bungie.

Then those people need to find - or MAKE - a clan that doesn't require time commitments.
For example, Saturns Rejects bills itself as a "casual" clan. We don't have time requirements, strict hierarchies, and what not. We just share a common resource: each other, on discord, available to team up now and then. Someone will say, "hey who wants to run Gambit a few times?", get a couple of "sure, I'm game for that" responses, and whoosh ... premade team of 4 for Gambit.

Meanwhile, yes, there's raid signups; our first organized Raid as a clan is set for Friday, 8 November .... and casual-as-hell me is on the Raid team. Because the signup was "first come, first serve", and I got slot #5. And nobody is going to have a fit if we're not "top ten" material to get through it. (Anyone that does? I am sure they will swiftly find themselves to be ex-members.)

Building pvp takes considerably less work.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :cough: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :gasp, wheeze: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ...

Sweet Jeebus, you don't believe that tripe, do you?!?

[Misfit]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Blackstar:

But as of now, I am guessing Bungie gates content, to make their PVP viable. I notice there is absolutely no part of PVP that is gated. Building pvp takes considerably less work.

lol