Artificial Difficulty and Padding

[Jz1207]

I want to preface this rant by saying that I've beaten all of the original Hollow Knight including optional challenges like Path of Pain, NKG, and Trial of the Fool, I even re-did all that in the 2 weeks leading up to Silksong. So please do not say "git gud" or something like that, especially since half of this post is not even about the difficulty.

In HK, when you lose it can generally be chalked up to being a mistake you made and mistakes are fairly forgiving most of the time as you can get right back into the action with little runback and/or farming.

In SS, dying does not feel like the fault of the player most times, you're often ambushed by random fodder enemies having attack patterns more aggressive than some bosses from HK, as well as most enemies and nearly all bosses being able to deal 2 damage despite you having the same amount of health as in HK. Enemies also have inflated HP, with basic flying enemies taking 5-10 hits to defeat. There are also a variety of environmental traps such as falling boulders and spikes rising from floors which have a very short warning and cover a large area that you're unlikely to get out of in time, some of which also do two damage.

On top of this, the way you heal is different, requiring a full bar in order to heal and therefore leaking health while travelling even if you actively avoid fights. Because an enemy hits for 2 damage and your heal only restores 3 health, but probably requires killing multiple tough enemies to charge a single heal, you're almost always going to travel around on low health and get executed by a 2 damage attack.

Platforming is more difficult as you now have a diagonal dash instead of one leading directly downwards, requiring more precise aiming and timing as well as changing direction mid-air being kind of janky during these sequences. Hornet's moveset in general is flawed, with her attack having very little knockback and such a slow attack rate that even less fast enemies can walk straight through her attacks and hit her - you do find the wanderer's crest that just gives you the knight's moveset from HK and it's better in every possible way. You also have to press up+bumper to use tools which is inconvenient for using them in combat situations or platforming, not to mention no control rebind options.

The ledge grab is also inconsistent, sometimes you try to drop off a platform and grab back on, and other times your press your entire body against a platform's ledge and it doesn't constitute a grab.

There's also the overuse of darkness, visual overlays, and busy foregrounds, so it can be difficult to even see. Blasted Steps for example has a platforming sequence where you're effectively blind and can only see the next platform after already jumping from the current one.

Difficulty alone is not a negative factor, but as mentioned there's a difference between difficulty in HK, where your death is generally due to a mistake which can be learned from so you can do better next time, and difficulty in SS where a lot of deaths are due to difficulty controlling your own movement, lacking the ability to heal, lacking important information, and regular enemies having very fast and aggressive attacks and damage output not to mention bosses.

On top of the difficulty in general being harder, the logic for where your death loot spawns often places it right in the middle of the room you died in - forcing you to start the boss fight or combat trial again to reclaim your things and potentially die again instead of being able to leave, unlike in HK where you could decide something was beyond your current power and just reclaim your death loot from near the entrance before leaving to do something else.

Worse than the difficulty though in my opinion is the Padding.

HK generally has little to no grinding save for if you want unbreakable charms which are optional, and even if you have to grind it's quicker than in SS. In SS the main currency is Rosaries, which drop in small numbers from specific types of enemies that only spawn in specific areas. Bosses and minibosses do not drop rosaries.

Whenever you try to go anywhere, you're stopped by multiple combat trial rooms where you're locked in and waves of enemies spawn until either you die or they all do and from the section on difficulty above you can imagine these constant trials being frustratingly difficult, especially since there often aren't benches before or after them and they don't have a reason to be there in the first place such as guarding an item or important location. Enemies in combat trial rooms do not drop rosaries either.

Nearly half of all benches require rosaries, as well as many rosary locked gates (some of which require you paying every time you go through them), fast travel stations, maps, and mapping equipment also require rosaries, but due to the fact that rosaries are extremely sparse and the unforgiving difficulty makes you very likely to lose all of your rosaries. You often have little to no rosaries, see something which requires rosaries, and now either have to give up on it or go and grind - interrupting whatever you were currently doing. Putting rosaries into strings is an option, but only at a rare few specific spots, and you lose 25 percent of your rosaries by doing this.

On top of the lack of rosaries, benches are also sparse, being few and far between and requiring rosaries in order to unlock in a lot of cases, this makes every death even more punishing and annoying as now you have to take a long and difficult journey back to wherever you were before, benches are also required to change charms, crests, tools and abilities which means if you encounter something that requires you to use something you don't currently have equipped (such as a regenerating silk wall requiring the needle throw), then you have to take a long journey back to a bench, change your gear, and then take a long journey back to the roadblock.

Lastly, the sidequests are the worst example of padding in the game. You often have to gather up x amount of a specific item by killing x amount of a specific enemy for no reason other than increasing the playtime. You may be tempted to ignore them but the rewards are often vital such as crest upgrade materials or even the drifter's cloak which is mandatory for progression.

Not to mention the game now has crafting and durability. You may have to stop retrying a boss because you've run out of tool uses and don't have the shards to replenish them, so now you have to go and grind instead of fighting the boss.

tl:dr: The game has artificially inflated difficulty and playtime due to overtuned numbers and menial tasks/runback. Soundtrack and visuals are great though.

[Brma]

Maybe you just got older and your skills have declined.

[Jz1207]

Originally posted by Brma:

Maybe you just got older and your skills have declined.

As stated at the beginning of my post, in the 2 weeks leading up to SIlksong I replayed all of HK including the optional challenges, I beat Trial of the Fool the day before drop.

[Shadowlet]

I think you just have carpal tunnel

[Brma]

Originally posted by Jz1207:

Originally posted by Brma:

Maybe you just got older and your skills have declined.

As stated at the beginning of my post, in the 2 weeks leading up to SIlksong I replayed all of HK including the optional challenges, I beat Trial of the Fool the day before drop.

Yes, playing a game the second time, once you mastered it, tends to be easier.

[Jz1207]

Originally posted by Brma:

Originally posted by Jz1207:

As stated at the beginning of my post, in the 2 weeks leading up to SIlksong I replayed all of HK including the optional challenges, I beat Trial of the Fool the day before drop.

Yes, playing a game the second time, once you mastered it, tends to be easier.

The point I'm making is that my skills haven't "declined with age" like you suggest, since I only just replayed HK. I'm not even old, and I play other difficult games regularly.

Please engage with the points I'm making instead of being another voice repeating "skill issue" and "git gud", half of the post wasn't even about difficulty.

[MoonCake]

Originally posted by Brma:

Maybe you just got older and your skills have declined.

youre only small 6 hours in my friend

[Brma]

Originally posted by Hachi:

Originally posted by Brma:

Maybe you just got older and your skills have declined.

youre only small 6 hours in my friend

I apologize for having a job and sleeping.

[Brma]

Originally posted by Jz1207:

Originally posted by Brma:

Yes, playing a game the second time, once you mastered it, tends to be easier.

The point I'm making is that my skills haven't "declined with age" like you suggest, since I only just replayed HK. I'm not even old, and I play other difficult games regularly.

Please engage with the points I'm making instead of being another voice repeating "skill issue" and "git gud", half of the post wasn't even about difficulty.

My first post was being a smart ass.

[That Gaming Guy]

Grinding rosaries for a decent map of the area is an awful gameplay loop, it gets in the way of meaningful progression and exploration.

[Nos]

I like the game, but hate the combat and all the flying enemies that do 2 masks of damage for no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason, causing you to fall into the environmental hazard that also does 2 masks of damage for no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason. I'd rather do hitless path of pain with markoth chasing me all the way than face the citadel enemies

[タレント]

git gud, its skill issue and hollow knight is easy

[Jz1207]

Originally posted by タレント:

git gud, its skill issue and hollow knight is easy

I 100%ed Elden Ring am I gud yet? This isn't constructive at all and does not engage in the discussion. And, as mentioned before, half of the post isn't about difficulty.

[Razor [GER]]

well its only gona get harder i tell you, if you need rosaries theres some areas early on around the red ants which you can farm. In regards to the diagonal dash Spoiler: you can equip different movesets a bit later which let you pogo etc.

[Jz1207]

Originally posted by Razor GER:

well its only gona get harder i tell you, if you need rosaries theres some areas early on around the red ants which you can farm. In regards to the diagonal dash Spoiler: you can equip different movesets a bit later which let you pogo etc.

I did mention the different movesets in my post.

[TripSin]

Originally posted by Jz1207:

Originally posted by タレント:

git gud, its skill issue and hollow knight is easy

I 100%ed Elden Ring am I gud yet? This isn't constructive at all and does not engage in the discussion. And, as mentioned before, half of the post isn't about difficulty.

Sounds like a skill issue and that you can't adapt to new mechanics.