It strikes me that the various FTL technologies are all very close together by design on the tech-web, which initially made sense. But the more i think about it the more different I imagine each them are. Would it be possible to seperate the FTL drives and Energy technologies into vary different parts of the web?

My argument is that each sorta deals with vastly different physics. If each branch of the tree had an offshoot that lead say to a kind of FTL - that might lend some flavor to things.

Also, FTL energy-techs could be merged into the Energy tech web.

Ideally i'd like to see the center branch off in three directions: Energy / Matter(Material) / Organization(Social)
The overlaps between any of the two of these could explain any kind fo tech available, and the distance and branching from the center could represent various schools of thought and style as well as advancements and sophistication.

I see Gates as being about Organization and Energy Manipulations
I see Flingers (I see you Mass Effect) as Matter manipulation
I see Hyperdrives as mostly Organizational (design of engines for a 'known science')
I see Slipstream as purely the energy to rip holes in the Space Time Continuum.

I otherwise very much like the techweb. Each branching out and overlap between concepts is very intuitive.

Well, on the other end, there is a definite overlap between slipstream and gates, just as there's an overlap between fling beacons and hyperdrives. Of course, this could just be my fault for making the localization that way, but...

I was also wondering if "ship hulls" might be possible to implement for support vessels, but with a different facet. In this, it'd be about role specification. (A general ship would do better across the board, but a role-specific vessel would fill a niche)

A few hull ideas for support vessels (unlocked with appropriate tech)

*Raider Hull: +Free Ammo Storage and long range engagement (can we make the AI engage at system or larger distances?) -Higher Maintenence

*Sealthed Hull: (Unlocked with cloaking mesh): +Free cloaked mesh around the entire ship/reduces the range enemy AI's attack/target it with weapons fire. -Constant appropriate Energy cost (cant turn it off)

*Drone: +No control needed +Maintenence reduced -Command cost increased for host

*Ship of the Line: +Lower Initial Cost, +Less Labor Required -Half of the Normal Available hexes/interior space to design it.

A few additional specializations for other classes

*Cruiser (Flagship): Independant long-range vessel: +Recieve double normal supplies +High self-repair rate -Minimal command/support capability

*Saucer (Flagship): Angular momentem and rotation vessel; +VERY High turn rate multiplier -Control required substantially increased

Sub-system Ideas
[Manufacturing/Equipment] *Electronic Warfare Suite - produces "Ghost" ships representing false targets for the enemy to shoot at. The ships produced in this way would cost nothing but time to make, and require no maintenence and minimal command. They would do 0% damage and only have 1 HP each. But they would be constantly spawned up to a maximum determined by the size of the ship, at a rate determined by the size of the subsystem.) Ideally, these will just be "normal ships" produced with modifiers doing the above, so they match designed ships. Perhaps they could have some kind of visual or textual identification of their nature. If they could be made to not explode but just "disappear" that would be cool.

[Weapon/Equipment] *Mine Layer - Shoots projectiles with nearly no acceleration that wait for something to enter range, then slowly moves towards them. The acceleration of the projectile is exponentially inverse with the range of its target. As a target gets closer, the mine will move faster and turn sharper. High Damage, High Supplies cost.

[Weapon/Equipment] *Jammer - Shoots a wide area of effect cone at enemies doing no damage. Targets hit however have their power drained, their acceleration and turn raidii reduced, and their control mitigated. (Shielded Power cores, AI control, and graviton engines would be far less affected)


If i can think of any more I'll use this thread.

Dalo Lorn の投稿を引用：

Well, on the other end, there is a definite overlap between slipstream and gates, just as there's an overlap between fling beacons and hyperdrives. Of course, this could just be my fault for making the localization that way, but...

Right, there are no wrong ways to think about Scifi - I was just imagining that it means you go to the "FTL store to get what you need, and get out" rather than say a society advancing and discovering a neat FTL trick as it unlocked the secrets of the universes one step at a time in various fields. Any way will be the right way. I just like thematics.

Qes の投稿を引用：

I was also wondering if "ship hulls" might be possible to implement for support vessels, but with a different facet. In this, it'd be about role specification. (A general ship would do better across the board, but a role-specific vessel would fill a niche)

A few hull ideas for support vessels (unlocked with appropriate tech)

*Raider Hull: +Free Ammo Storage and long range engagement (can we make the AI engage at system or larger distances?) -Higher Maintenence

*Sealthed Hull: (Unlocked with cloaking mesh): +Free cloaked mesh around the entire ship/reduces the range enemy AI's attack/target it with weapons fire. -Constant appropriate Energy cost (cant turn it off)

*Drone: +No control needed +Maintenence reduced -Command cost increased for host

*Ship of the Line: +Lower Initial Cost, +Less Labor Required -Half of the Normal Available hexes/interior space to design it.

A few additional specializations for other classes

*Cruiser (Flagship): Independant long-range vessel: +Recieve double normal supplies +High self-repair rate -Minimal command/support capability

*Saucer (Flagship): Angular momentem and rotation vessel; +VERY High turn rate multiplier -Control required substantially increased

Sub-system Ideas
[Manufacturing/Equipment] *Electronic Warfare Suite - produces "Ghost" ships representing false targets for the enemy to shoot at. The ships produced in this way would cost nothing but time to make, and require no maintenence and minimal command. They would do 0% damage and only have 1 HP each. But they would be constantly spawned up to a maximum (determined by the size of the ship, the maximum spawned determined by the size of the subsystem.) Ideally, these will just be "normal ships" produced with modifiers doing the above, so they match designed ships. Perhaps they could have some kindo visual or textual identification of their nature. If they could be made to not explode but just "disappear" that would be cool.

[Weapon/Equipment] *Mine Layer - Shoots projectiles with nearly no acceleration that wait for something to enter range, then slowly moves towards them. The acceleration of the projectile is exponentially inverse with the range of its target. As a target gets closer, the mine will move faster and turn sharper. High Damage, High Supplies cost.

[Weapon/Equipment *Jammer - Shoots a wide area of effect cone at enemies doing no damage. Targets hit however have their power drained, their acceleration and turn raidii retarded, and their control mitigated. (Shielded Power cores, AI control, and graviton engines would be far less affected)


If i can think of any more I'll use this thread.

Raider: Alar's actually been messing around with a 'Fighter' hull, and I think that one would definitely get a lot of free ammo storage so it can sort of dogfight.

Stealth: Something like this could be sort of appropriate for the flagship 'Stealth Hull', but doesn't seem likely for support ships. I'm not sure. At any rate, it may or may not be additionally problematic to make it run 100% of the time.

Drone: Seems interesting, though that could easily overlap with Fighters, your suggested Stealth hull, and the Ship of the Line.

Ship of the Line: Heh, I know at least one person who would probably use those a lot.

That being said, halving the hex limit doesn't really make the ship weaker. The only argument I can immediately think of to support that suggestion would be the inability to weave armor types together, and that's not something that impacts support ships as much as it impacts flagships. (Not to mention that it's going a bit into min-maxing territory at that point.)

Cruiser: Interesting, though I would take a more aggressive approach towards encouraging independence in such a ship.

Saucer: Eh, don't quite see the point of such a ship, especially with Graviton Engines.

EW suite: Pretty sure this is beyond our ability right now.

Minelayer: Your idea is, just like Alar's alternative implementations, not really possible. The best we can do is the minelayers from 'Crazy Subsystems', and that's really just dumping a bunch of projectiles in an enemy's path and praying they're idiotic enough to slam into them.

Jammer: Power/Control can't really be affected the way you're suggesting, and making the debuff scale based on what kind of subsystems you're using is yet another can of worms to deal with in an already tricky system.

Qes の投稿を引用：

Dalo Lorn の投稿を引用：

Well, on the other end, there is a definite overlap between slipstream and gates, just as there's an overlap between fling beacons and hyperdrives. Of course, this could just be my fault for making the localization that way, but...

Right, there are no wrong ways to think about Scifi - I was just imagining that it means you go to the "FTL store to get what you need, and get out" rather than say a society advancing and discovering a neat FTL trick as it unlocked the secrets of the universes one step at a time in various fields. Any way will be the right way. I just like thematics.

Well, all the FTL methods use the same stuff. There's only one type of FTL energy, so it makes sense that the different FTL methods are just various ways of using the same thing. Kind of like the wheel, really; it might have originally been invented to make movement easier, but we also use that technology in clocks and stuff.

Yeah on the ship of the line it's meant to be less sophisticated/elegant but still functional, all those "simple designs" would make powerful use of it. Perhaps a SEVERE limitation to hex space/interior space might work? But yeah the point is valid.


One Last "ooo oo!" idea that came to me while futzing with technical difficulties - is how many sci fi shows have races with vastly different philosophies to ship design. I love the Sinew and verdant ideas.

I'd love to see more stark differences between "what the ship is made of." Obviously these Sinew/verdant designs are "living ships" and creatures in their own right.

But I'd also love to see truly alien and advanced ideas: Abstractions and different 'materials' that make up ships - not merely their components.


I'd love to see cyrstal-fixated cultures/races with crystaline ships that operate differently. Perhaps their entire surface MUST be coated in a specific crystaline-armor (like cloaked mesh but armor). Perhaps engines and weapons can go through it - or perhaps there could be some other mechanic involved to make it work.

I'd also like abstract meta-dimensional/energy races, like energy beings with abstract/hyper dimensional ships/constructions. They could take less damage from kinetic sources and more from energy (perhaps explosives could remain the same). Or maybe their ships would not need to be "connected" into a single mass. Disconnected ship parts would be perfectly allowed but would require some new subsystem that would be particularly vulnerable to laser fire.

A subterranian/rock race might be fun for a very different game play. Like the "ringworlders"
Perhaps they should have a VAST amount of space to work with, but the topography would be limited to caverns, underground seas, and ..well rock. Development would be the big thing, perhaps developing tiles would require lots of labor but access to large areas would be possible with time. Perhaps their ships could also reflect this 'insluar" feeling and have ships whose construction must include 50% armor tiles. But armor would not count against interior space - no matter where it was placed.

A race of liquid "shapechangers" might be fantastic too, highly adaptable. Perhaps they could start with the "Liquid armor" option, and lack the standard armor. Perhaps they lack in labor production but can adapt quickly with "build time" modifiers. Civilian buildings morphing from one type to another almost instantly as pressures change. Their ships would automatically retrofit to new designs for free if not in combat.

Thanks again for your work

Cloaking seems fun and the use of energy makes sense, but having it as a toggle is frustrating. It means i have to micromanage and be very specific with its use rather than just be a "generally sneaky" people with cloaking meshes everywhere.

Would it be possible to instead have the cloaking mesh just "always on?" (except in combat), and have a reduced energy footprint? The balance to this would be that the cloaking mesh should require significantly more power on ships.

This would let me possibly make a 'stealthy' race if i so chose.

I'd also recommend not having it grant cloaking to the whole fleet - just the ship. And then add it as a component to support ships. This would require those ships also to be designed appropriately. I see cloaking as really "what gets targeted last" in a fight.

Uh, making it always on does seem possible. However, the whole thing currently operates by applying a status, and support ships (as I've learnt the hard way - Power Transmitters and Metaphasic Nebulae don't do anything for support shields) don't have statuses.

Ahhh, fair enough. Well "always on" is much more important to me to reduce micro than is supportship differentiation.

Would it be possible to bolster ore use and aquisition? I like the Ringworlder mechanic, but it becomes virtually impossible to spend the requisite ore leveling a ringworld AND then trying to build a new one - even if the planets blow up. And since your worlds ARE going to blow up - you've gotta build those goods I and II buildings.

Now this is all well and good, but the prospects of expanding to a second ringworld become daunting.

It'd be nice if there was some way to create ore (perhaps from energy?) using some super advanced tech. Of course there should be downsides, but it'd be nice to have projects other than "well i guess i should conquer the galaxy". Building ringworlds is fun. I think it SHOULD be hard. But then an ore source larger than asteroids might be necessary. Maybe something you cant tow back to your world with tugboats - so that you rminers would have to make the trip? Or set up some kind of mine/haul situation?

I like that its tough - but it strangely seems easier to conquer the galaxy than build a second ringworld.

A few "Diplomatic" Card ideas, to enhance their use.
I really love the diplomatic nature of this game, though I think the AI needs tweaking in it's use. It obsesses over Zeitgiest politics instead of proactively using their cards. This is an AI issue and i'm not sure how much could be done about it - but preferably they'd use their annex cards significantly more (as often as they use Name-object) cards. And fight over zeitgiest about 50% as much. (Give up sooner and be more proactive than reactive).

I also believe that as one aquires cards, it should beceome more expensive/difficult to aquire new ones (perhaps only for humans players). As one "invests in political manuvers" of cards, it should be harder to obtain more. (Perhaps purchase prices of cards, the stake, increases for every 4 cards? If you've twelve cards perhaps purchasing new cards should cost 3 more minimum? I'm rolling in cards at the end and influence, so this wouldnt be a huge issue late game, but might slow down things in the midgame.

As for card suggestions. I have a few suggestions and hoepfully the AI could use them as a rubberband diplomatic effect for when they are lagging behind gamewise. All of these will be "punish the leader-esque" in nature - but not autoamtic, as they're still diplomatic actions that must be voted on. And unlike the randomness of Zeitgeist, hopefully, humans and AI could use them as "come from behind" or "slow the leader down" intentional diplomatic plays.

Card ideas
-Military Tax
Maintenence costs for ships and stations is trippled. The highest supporter of this vote does not pay maintenence for the remainder of the card. (Lasts X minutes depending on quality)

-Moral Outrage
Changes vote amount. Amount of cost and weight is half the current toal of the empire. (I.e. an empire with 30 influence to spend would spend 15 and add 15 weight to the vote.

-Peacekeeper Force Iniative
The largest supporter gains an mutual protection treaty with all other empires except the largest opposer of this vote, and all nations lose half their defence income except the largest supporter of this vote gains double their defense income.(Lasts x minutes depending on quality).

-Galactic Equilibrium
The emipre with the most points loses 50% fleet efficiency. All other empires gain 50% effiiency.

-Galactic Development Program
The empire with the most points loses half their research and energy incomes. All other empires have their research and energy incomes increased by an appropriate amount.

-Planetary Preservation Initiative
No new planets may be colonized for the duration. (Lasts X minutes depending on quality)

-Envrionmental Mandates
Production on all worlds (labor) is cut in half. Labor is no longer allowed to be stored except by the largest supporter of this vote. (Stores will empty). All nations increase their influence income by 50%. (Lasts X minutes depending on quality)

-Galactic Peace Enforcement
All wars are ceased, and no new wars may be declared for X minutes. (Depending on quality of the card)

-United Condemnation.
All nations go to war with the empire with the most points. (Peace may not be sought for X minutes, depending on quality)

-Request Outside Alien Assitance.
Seedships now spawn Ixion-class (or better) remnant vessals instead of dropping artifacts. And at much higher frequency. Multiple seed ships may be called. (Lasts X minutes depending on quality)

-Release Bondage
Target vassal will regain independance.

-Remnant Extermination
Destroying Remnant capital ships will now gain the empire X influence. (X increases with quality)

-Suppression
All influence incomes are reduced to 0 for X minutes (depending on the value of the card).

-Galactic Trade Accords
All nations gain incomes in Special Funds and Research based on the number of worlds they have, and the number of worlds that other empires with whom they've trade-agreements have. The largest supporter of this gainst a Galactic Trade Accords card of the same quality if it passes. The largest opposer gains 300k Funds if it fails. (Lasts X minutes, depending on quality.)

Also I feel that the time it takes to militarily subdue a planet should be trippled. Just straight out.

Great mod!

Some few small suggestions:

• For Devout, the research to increase maximum possible population (ImpPopLvl3) seems to become a killer for being able to properly provide altar support (i.e. avoid Godless status).
  I've tested adding something like
  "
  RepeatExtended(ModEmpireAttribute(AltarSupportedPopulation, Add, 2), Base Attribute = PopulationLevel3Mod)
  "
  to the altar building, allowing it to grow along with the research. I figured a multiple of 2 is decent, since it allows the altar world to cover its own increased population, plus one other level 2+ planet's. Might need to play with this a bit.
  
  
• For any infinite research (ex: ImpShieldAll, ImpPopLvl3, etc.) I suggest avoiding secondary purchase (energy, money, whatnot) method, as it becomes too easy to spam those.
  
  
• Add a infinite research for weapon damage as well.
  
  
• Is it possible to add a "titan type" hull for stations? (I.e. fortress?) I'd love to be able to make orbitals with larger max hex counts. Negative could possibly be to cost ore?

1. Good catch.

EDIT: I've modified your suggestion a bit. Instead of this:


I did this:


This way, the benefits scale depending on the level of the Altar in question - Habitat Development makes Altars cover another 1-7 population, while Metropolitan Engineering makes them cover another 2-14 population, depending on their level.

2. Honestly, I don't know. Without secondary unlocks, those techs would become prohibitively expensive in the late game when you already need all that Research to unlock various subsystems and stuff.

3. *shrugs*

4. Sounds interesting. Alar's actually been tinkering with various hulls for support ships; this might be next.

Cool. Just throwing ideas around. :)
I really like the approach to including the planet level in the altar adjustment. I'm going to ruthlessly steal that now.

Given how much larger the research tree is (than vanilla), perhaps consider tweaking the research falloff slightly?
In "ResearchGrid.as" the following appears:
I haven't tested tweaking this, but this appears to control the research falloff rate.