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GunZ 2: The Second Duel
ShadowHawk Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:14am
In response to k-style, glitches, exploitations, please read full response
First off, I apologize for the lengthy book of a response, I needed to say something and get it off my chest after reading a lot of your thoughts. Read with an open mind through the whole thing before you think you get the jist of my rant. ;) cheers...

The beauty of skillful games is being able to come up with unique styles that are hard to copy or master, your own style. A lot of you complaining make it seem like if someone learns how to play a certain way you want to call it cheating, skill-less and exploiting "glitches". It doesn't matter if a developer says something like k-style is a bug, glitch or unattended, almost all modern games these days, especially games that allow you the freedom of different movements and skills have unintended glitches, exploits, new movements and ways of playing, that's the beauty of playing games and exploring highly skilled and hard learning curved games. Like an artist who paints a masterpiece or a song writer who comes up with an awesome song, people will see and hear it differently, the same goes with a lot of games, some of us will see and play in a ways that don't make sense to you or if you can't do it yourself and get owned all of a sudden they're skill-less and abusing glitches, come on grow up, learn to counter, learn from your opponent, these games aren't meant to be easy to just point shoot slash and win, it takes more than that.

For the record, if you couldn't beat someone in Gunz 1 because they "spammed glitches" or relied on "k-style only" then you either just sucked, gave up easily, didn't want to learn how to defeat them or cried because you couldn't win and lets face it you can't win them all., a lot of great players didn't even need to use k-style or used elements of k-style into their flow and play, I saw a lot of dagger pros own k-stylers. Gunz 1 was an ever involving skill development, a personal experience, maybe elements or movements became somewhat of a standard to a lot of players but that's just one plateau of experience and knowledge, true skilful players could beat these guys with good aim, timing, patience, defense, etc.. If you think k-style was just smashing buttons then go ahead and try to smash buttons and be good at a game, lol. It's naive to say hackers came because of k-style, whether k-style existed or not be honest hackers come regardless, hacks are made for almost every game, lol. If it wasn't k-style you'd still be complaining about something else, Gunz 1 was awesome, unique and there will probably never be another game like it. I do agree the negativity, ego, and skillful players going into beginner channels to troll and ruin newbies experience contributed to the demise of the game. With such a steep learning curve it's tough for a lot of impatient kids/adults to stick with something these days and learn to master, unfortunately we all want to learn how to kick ♥♥♥ fast not take years to be decent.


Lastly, if you actually took the time to read what I wrote with an open mind instead of preconceived made up thoughts you're probably thinking this guy is all about k-style, spammed it and defending it to the bone. When in reality I didn't even know the full concept of k-stye, I learned a few moves that I thought would help my game and I found them useful but at the end of the day I prided myself on my own way of playing, my own way of relating and being, such as life. Sometimes I used butterfly, sometimes double-butterfly, sometimes I RS'd and often I just Swap shotted instead, using a rev and shottie, I also enjoyed spraying, using nades, smokes and flashes. Defense in gunz 1 was awesome, yeah turtling could be annoying to some but it was fun, one glitch I did think was funny and it was hard to time was when someone came at you and you block and flipped/slashed them at the same time they fell to the floor lol, i didn't spam that but it was funny. I'm not talking about the glitch where when you flipped and slashed at the right time they fell to the floor, but there was one I found out on my own, on accident, that would make them fall without lifting them off the ground. I practiced a lot and learned from my opponents, I didn't train to just butterfly around or do unnecessary movements to win, that's my point, a lot of you are saying people only won from spamming k-style or were the best, those people I found were easy to beat once you reached a certain level of understanding and playing, well easy may be the wrong word because they weren't always easy but definitely beatable. Your personal growth in this game was unlimited, beyond "k-style" or any style spammer as you call it. For those of you who clan warred you know what I mean, it was all about fast movement, spot on aiming, etc.. yes shotties became the standard for quick killing, but again a lot of games have certain weaps/combinations that end up being the most effective and most of the players will use them if it achieves a victory doesn't mean they're unbeatable.
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糸恵 Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:42am 
lol read the first few lines i can see this has to do with a lot of my posts i still stand anyone who takes pride in a glitch and trying to come off liek ti's a good thing like you is just dumb glitching is a hack/ cheating and it's again look what happend to gunz one because of it k-style is not even s tyle it's justa dumb glitch and it's skilless don't even need to read the rest of it watch how quick the game will be full of hackers if they allow k-style in etc it will end as fast as gunz 1 did <3 enjoy thinking you have skill tho
糸恵 Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:45am 
here is an example if someone say in an fps game etc glitched into walls and was just able to kill everyone in the map and not get kileld WOULD YOU NOT BE MADD would you not call that cheating IT's THE SAME THING exploiting a games flaws for your advantage IS NOT A SKILLFULL THING and it's not proving your good it's proving you actually suck at the actual game and you can't play it right so you have to use the "flaws" within the game to give yourself a leverage. again glitching bugs etc all in the same catagory as hacking and cheating but you can go on thinking it's cool or "skillful" because it never will be.<3
Last edited by 糸恵; Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:45am
ShadowHawk Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:47am 
LOL, you missed the point of my post since you didn't read the whole thing... you're assumptions and prejudice show your lack of understanding and mature and healthy debate processes. At least if you did read the whole thing your response might be a little more in depth, you proved exactly my point, I wasn't even trying to defend k-style 100% to the bone, my post was beyond k-style, have some patience and re-read or are you another one of those players who lose their cool super fast, quick judgements and get mad when people own them because someone knows how to out maneuver, aim, defend and skill them, blame their "button smashing" because if you can't beat a button smasher who can you beat?
ShadowHawk Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:53am 
Originally posted by 糸恵:
here is an example if someone say in an fps game etc glitched into walls and was just able to kill everyone in the map and not get kileld WOULD YOU NOT BE MADD would you not call that cheating IT's THE SAME THING exploiting a games flaws for your advantage IS NOT A SKILLFULL THING and it's not proving your good it's proving you actually suck at the actual game and you can't play it right so you have to use the "flaws" within the game to give yourself a leverage. again glitching bugs etc all in the same catagory as hacking and cheating but you can go on thinking it's cool or "skillful" because it never will be.<3

I agree if someone is glitching into walls and using semi hack glitches or w/e term you want to use is not skilful and annoying but because a movement like butterfly, double-butterfly, fast side to side shooting movements, RSing, etc.. were used and discovered that doesn't make them unskillful and hacks. Don't lump actual hacks and "glitches" that appear to be hacks in with movements, swordplay and ways of shooting.. there's a fine line and difference, yet the aforementioned may be considered "glitches" by your definition, even by the developers definition but that doesn't mean they're skill-less, hacks and abusive. What I found interesting in a video that Gunz 2 EU put out when one of the EU guys visited Maiet and had one of the gunz developer address k-style, he did acknowledge as k-style being certain glitch movements but he also went on to say that in gunz 2 it will be fun for players to discover new movements and ways to use the game to me hinting at other glitch type movements lol.
Last edited by ShadowHawk; Dec 13, 2013 @ 11:54am
Yumito Dec 13, 2013 @ 1:13pm 
glitches are apart of any game and those who look as them as cheating dont even realize they are doing it themselves. Think call of duty or halo, when your in the middle of a melee animation and you decide to change weapons, throw a grenade, or sprint and the animation is cut short you have just done a glitch known as an animation cancel. You canceled the melee animation by a few milliseconds while this may feel insignificant in call of duty in gunz it allows you to unlock the characters true potential.

in game design there are things known as a forward swing and a back swing first the forward swing this the the animation that must be present to cause the damage function of a melee attack. In call of duty this is when your knife goes halfway across your body at this time the damage function is activated and it causes the enemy to die. The entire animation if the knife moving across your entire body but only the first half the the animation is important. The backswing animation is your character after finishing the forward swing taking the knife and putting it back into the sheath. This is purely cosmetic and has no function. An animation cancel is stoppling any of these animations short to save time. To get the full effect you would stop the animation as soon as the damage function occurs as the rest is purely to help the game feel real.

In Gunz the forward swing is very long and the damage function comes very early and a quarter of a sword swing the damage function occurs and you can cancel the rest of the animation by using block. This is simply called an animation cancel. by doing this while jumping the real term would be jumping attack animation cancel but as that doesnt flow very well they just call it a butterfly.

These "cheats" you see them as in gunz you have been doing in all your other games just an a smaller scale you may do them purely out of instincts but you have probably have done them.
Last edited by Yumito; Dec 13, 2013 @ 1:15pm
ShadowHawk Dec 13, 2013 @ 1:46pm 
Well said Captain Pitbull, well said....
OxNEOxO Dec 13, 2013 @ 2:23pm 
Funny how this person said the same thing... link:http://forum.gunz2.co.uk/threads/in-response-to-k-style-glitches-exploitations-please-read-full-response.1448/

unless that is you also on EU forums, if not i find it sad... lawl (⌐■u■)

Ontopic: K-style is something that we all abused and was created on accident. Atleast Gunz 2 will more balanced.
Last edited by OxNEOxO; Dec 13, 2013 @ 2:35pm
Ashxu Dec 14, 2013 @ 1:41am 
"Gunz 1 was awesome, unique and there will probably never be another game like it."

Do people forget fighting games exist or something.

High skill floor, tough execution and combos were "born from a glitch/unintended gameplay" back in SF2.

If you want to play something like that then pick up Street Fighter 4 or something.
ShadowHawk Dec 14, 2013 @ 7:30am 
Originally posted by OxNEOxO:
Funny how this person said the same thing... link:http://forum.gunz2.co.uk/threads/in-response-to-k-style-glitches-exploitations-please-read-full-response.1448/

unless that is you also on EU forums, if not i find it sad... lawl (⌐■u■)

Ontopic: K-style is something that we all abused and was created on accident. Atleast Gunz 2 will more balanced.

Yeah that was me on the EU forum Sherlock.
ShadowHawk Dec 14, 2013 @ 8:20am 
Gunz 2 in a nutshell from EU forum:

I'm highly disappointed in gunz 2 so far. What Sbeame said sums it up for me so far:
"Gunz 2 - Slower movement, very slow aim.
Not much knowledge needed. Press 3 for sniper, shoot, and depending on what sniper you have, it's 1-shot kill.
Press left click a few times with sword out, switch to machine gun. Easy/free kill.
Not all that competitive. It's a pain trying to find a ranked game outside of a few "prime" hours of the day.
GUNZ 2 IS FAILING. IT'S BASICALLY OPEN BETA AND IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE 10% OF WHAT GUNZ 1 HAS TODAY."

Granted I can't fully judge it yet since I"m NA, I played a little bit her in CBT 2 and during this open community beta but I stopped coming in because I don't want to ruin any EU experience with my NA lag, lol but too be honest when I played in CBT 2 I didn't experience horrible lag the game just isn't too challenging, easy to learn and gets boring fast IMO. I feel like this game was made in 1990s. I mean this is the best Maiet can come up with after all that time after gunz 1, fine take k-style out I'm cool with that even though I enjoyed some of the movements, but still this is it? I'm hoping when it's fully released we'll see a lot more elements to the game that aren't available yet. cheers, have fun I guess.
OxNEOxO Dec 14, 2013 @ 9:43am 
Originally posted by ShadowHawk:
Originally posted by OxNEOxO:
Funny how this person said the same thing... link:http://forum.gunz2.co.uk/threads/in-response-to-k-style-glitches-exploitations-please-read-full-response.1448/

unless that is you also on EU forums, if not i find it sad... lawl (⌐■u■)

Ontopic: K-style is something that we all abused and was created on accident. Atleast Gunz 2 will more balanced.

Yeah that was me on the EU forum Sherlock.
Nice (⌐■u■)
Blubber Dec 14, 2013 @ 11:19am 
Add to that, K-Style was a rhythmic "song" of sorts, especially butterfly and when you messed up or were intimidated into a change of pace to ruin your rhythm, you heard the iconic "cling" followed by the double shotties and you knew the fight was over.

Every K-Styler had a different pace/song, if you played the wrong note, you damn well knew it. The stand-offs where each K-Styler would be doing their rhythm on a left to right basis and not yet approaching, as if each were sizing the other one up, looking to see whose song was weaker, all this was just damn arousing if you know what I mean.

It was an honors system most often someone who's mastered K-Style would bow to another awaiting a return bow before smashing their face in, or if they had shots fired at them, they'd just kill them dirty. If your skill didn't seem so great, the guy may just totally stop then laugh and dash away AND YOU COULDN'T DO A THING ABOUT IT, made you want to get better.
Last edited by Blubber; Dec 14, 2013 @ 11:24am
ShadowHawk Dec 14, 2013 @ 11:28am 
Cool assessment Blubber. :)
beastking Dec 14, 2013 @ 9:02pm 
read the first 2 paragraphs and was like "wtf...." NO! NO!!! NO!! K-style in no way shape or form was "unique" not being able to learn it? who wants to learn a glitch?! noalot of games do not have unintended glitches that they just keep there and i cannot believe you compared a glitch to art..... go play a gunz 1 private server and stop trying to ruin gunz 2 because k-style was completely unfair and it was a very stupid glitch that hurt the ♥♥♥♥ out of your hand. i cannot believe you wrote such long BS about k-style, that ♥♥♥♥ was GARBAGE dude!!
beastking Dec 14, 2013 @ 9:04pm 
and you for judging a EU game for its beta? ill tell you that ive played lots of betas and hardly came out the same way.
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