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Door Kickers
Ceceli Jun 3, 2013 @ 9:47am
Just played the demo for hours. Here's my thoughts...
Nice work, guys! A slice and pie game that we can organize the units and make a clean sweep.

BUT... There's a few things I noticed. Read carefully.

- When the swat guy reaches his waypoint, you lose control of his angle of sight with the right buttom of the mouse and you're forced to click it again.

- The time of response (spot enemy/shoot) seems faster when you add a angle of sight to the waypoint rather than by using the mouse to control the sight. Also, the time of response of men carring pistols seems faster than man carring carabines.

- While standing still, sometimes my man shoot the bad guys down, sometimes the otherway around. It makes me feel like it doesn't matter what I do, the game chooses what happen, therefore how will I ever evolve my skills? It just random stuff, right?

- And I also noticed that the way to go is cycling who takes point since the first guy is always gonna get shot, therefore lets divide the enemy bullets with my guys so everybody gets shot but nobody dies.

- The breach charge in the door won't damage the swat guy.

- Since it seems theres too manny variables taking place here, a replay would be nice to see where a second unit got ambushed while you were paying attention to the first one.

- Add different kind of waypoint with a timer to make the swat guy stop for 1 to 10 seconds before executing the next task. And before anyone says something about it, the Go A, B, C command if for different tasks, like coordinating teams to act at the same time.

- Add a safe way to open the door. They open the door like idiots standing in the way just wainting to get shot from dozens of enemies. Well, I guess you could do that judging by the way they stand close by the door but it is bugged. He won't even move after it.

Obs.: I found the level 9, the beach level, very hard specially 'cause of the above items. I did make it through, but I couldn't do it with all my men alive.
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Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] Jun 3, 2013 @ 12:29pm 
Thanks for your thoughts, Ceceli!!

I will go point by point over them :)

When the swat guy reaches his waypoint, you lose control of his angle of sight with the right buttom of the mouse and you're forced to click it again.
Yes, good note! Will be fixed :)

The time of response (spot enemy/shoot) seems faster when you add a angle of sight to the waypoint rather than by using the mouse to control the sight. Also, the time of response of men carring pistols seems faster than man carring carabines.
Pistols are more maneuverable esp. in tight spaces, and this is reflected in the game. Of course a lot of stuff in this respect is not yet implemented. But generally speaking you will want your pistol (probably to be called Pointman as a class) to be first man through the door,


While standing still, sometimes my man shoot the bad guys down, sometimes the otherway around. It makes me feel like it doesn't matter what I do, the game chooses what happen, therefore how will I ever evolve my skills? It just random stuff, right?
Its not fully random, do you think that maybe range is involved in this?


And I also noticed that the way to go is cycling who takes point since the first guy is always gonna get shot, therefore lets divide the enemy bullets with my guys so everybody gets shot but nobody dies.
I would say the way to go is lead with the pistol guy. Damage is not fully predictable, there's always a chance to be shot dead on the first wound.


The breach charge in the door won't damage the swat guy.
If you mean blackbast, thats true, its a conscious design decision we've made for now, as we didn't want to have troopers run around around without orders from the player and with any trained troopers in real life backblast wouldn't be a factor.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure (just retested) that the actual blast will kill troopers too :)


Since it seems theres too manny variables taking place here, a replay would be nice to see where a second unit got ambushed while you were paying attention to the first one.
You're right, and we are indeed workin on a Replay feature.


Add different kind of waypoint with a timer to make the swat guy stop for 1 to 10 seconds before executing the next task. And before anyone says something about it, the Go A, B, C command if for different tasks, like coordinating teams to act at the same time.
I will think about it, while I like the utility I'd rather solve the need otherwise, but need some time to reflect on it.


Add a safe way to open the door. They open the door like idiots standing in the way just wainting to get shot from dozens of enemies. Well, I guess you could do that judging by the way they stand close by the door but it is bugged. He won't even move after it.
The door can be opened in any position around the door so its up to you to choose. I normally open it from the side, and we will add some features that will help with staying safe from the door.

But keep in mind that in the game, like in real life, many times its critical to use the 1st second after opening the door to just get in and push through the fatal funnel, not stop at the door to trade shots with the bad guys and let them work out an organized defense.


I found the level 9, the beach level, very hard specially 'cause of the above items. I did make it through, but I couldn't do it with all my men alive.
The game might be harder now than the final release, with lots of stuff to be added that will help the player and lots of tactical options that are missing. Stay tuned.

Anyway, I'm very impressed that you played so much and you took the time to write all of this, so I'll send you a copy of our game :)

You seem the kind of player we want in our already excellent community, to help us build the project up :)

So just give me your email address and the game is yours!
Last edited by Vulpe Nebuna; Jun 3, 2013 @ 12:30pm
Benlightenment Jun 3, 2013 @ 12:47pm 
I've just been playing the demo for hours too (on recommendation of a friend) and it seems like this is a good place to post my own thoughts/random ♥♥♥♥les/ideas!

- The Go Code system seems to come second in the chain of actions at certain times. For example, I put a waypoint past a door (so the trooper has to stack on the other side) then set this waypoint for Go Code A. Then choose to breach the door with a Flashbang. On execution, instead of going to the waypoint, then going on A, the trooper passes the door, breaches and throws a flashbang, then gets to the waypoint and waits for A.

- Is it in the works (or a bug, maybe) to have an indication for the range of a Flashbang? Or is this going to be something that the player has to work out for themselves?

- Is anything in the works for being able to show/disable troop paths on an individual basis? I'm the kind of player who likes to plan out EVERYTHING at the start, then let it play and see what happens, then refine. On some of the more complicated levels, this can lead to a mash of sight lines, paths, flashbang indicators, you name it!

- Is a run speed/walk speed function possible? Sometimes I'd like my guys to be able to close a certain gap a little faster, probably at the expense of safety and aiming.

- A hold fire option could be good too! The AI seems to do this already a little bit, but I'm sure on at least one occasion, my troops have tried to shoot through a hostage to get a terrorist.

All in all though, I'm in love. It feels like SWAT 2 all over again, and no game since then has captured that feeling so well, for me. I'll be keeping a close eye on this. Keep up the good work!
Ceceli Jun 3, 2013 @ 3:14pm 
You're one of the few developers who not only took the time to read my comments on the alpha, but actually gave me a feedback. Thanks. Anyway, just helping you make a great game to be proud of, and thus helping me and community.

Thank you, Vulpe Nebuna! My email is mauricio_ceceli@msn.com I'll be looking forward to play the full version. Hopefully I'll spot something new to help.
Ceceli Jun 3, 2013 @ 3:26pm 
Oh, and just explaining a little bit more the waypoint with a timer, 'cause I thought I didn't express myself good enough on that item.

It goes like this. The guy needs to go forward with a trajectory already set. But there's not stops besides the Go Code A, B and C. And this is why it would be nice to have this option. To Slice the pie. If you don't take the time to shoot the guy in front of you before going to de adjacent room, you're just telling your guy to go straight up to the next room, getting shot from the enemy you left behind you and them from the one in front of you.
Last edited by Ceceli; Jun 3, 2013 @ 3:51pm
ThreeLeggedWizardShark Jun 3, 2013 @ 4:03pm 
I think a "sweep" feature would be nice for the angle of sight, where you could have your soldiers scan an area. It'd help so you could have all of your units operate simultanously, without having to manually control their angle of views as they enter a wide room.
Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] Jun 3, 2013 @ 4:08pm 
@cryingpanda - do you mean having troopers scan a larger angle than the current "aim this way" feature that you can use on waypoints?
Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] Jun 3, 2013 @ 4:20pm 
Originally posted by Benlightenment:
- The Go Code system seems to come second in the chain of actions at certain times. For example, I put a waypoint past a door (so the trooper has to stack on the other side) then set this waypoint for Go Code A. Then choose to breach the door with a Flashbang. On execution, instead of going to the waypoint, then going on A, the trooper passes the door, breaches and throws a flashbang, then gets to the waypoint and waits for A.
I think I know what you're saying and indeed we need to fix some stuff regarding the waypoint system.

- Is it in the works (or a bug, maybe) to have an indication for the range of a Flashbang? Or is this going to be something that the player has to work out for themselves?
My initial thoughts were that hey it should be left to the player, but today we did an actual mockup on showing the range, and I like it, so you can expect it in the game sometime in the future:)

- Is anything in the works for being able to show/disable troop paths on an individual basis? I'm the kind of player who likes to plan out EVERYTHING at the start, then let it play and see what happens, then refine. On some of the more complicated levels, this can lead to a mash of sight lines, paths, flashbang indicators, you name it!

My kind of player! Yes, working on it :)

Is a run speed/walk speed function possible? Sometimes I'd like my guys to be able to close a certain gap a little faster, probably at the expense of safety and aiming.

Not possible / implemented at the moment, but we might add a "dash" command for such cases. Other than that based on consultant advice and interface aims I'd say we don't want to overcomplicate things, and maybe automate speed transitions in relation to what the troopers are doing at the moment.

- A hold fire option could be good too! The AI seems to do this already a little bit, but I'm sure on at least one occasion, my troops have tried to shoot through a hostage to get a terrorist.
It shouldn't happen but ... will test some more?

All in all though, I'm in love. It feels like SWAT 2 all over again, and no game since then has captured that feeling so well, for me. I'll be keeping a close eye on this. Keep up the good work!

Thanks a lot!
Benlightenment Jun 3, 2013 @ 4:30pm 
My initial thoughts were that hey it should be left to the player, but today we did an actual mockup on showing the range, and I like it, so you can expect it in the game sometime in the future:)

I did think that might be the case (I don't disagree either! Could be a good thing for a "difficulty level" toggle)

My kind of player! Yes, working on it :)

That makes me happy! The amount of lines I draw on a map is a little outrageous. Being able to see which trooper was doing what in some way would be a massive help. Even colour coding would be nice!


Not possible / implemented at the moment, but we might add a "dash" command for such cases. Other than that based on consultant advice and interface aims I'd say we don't want to overcomplicate things, and maybe automate speed transitions in relation to what the troopers are doing at the moment.

That was just an idea... it's almost definitely not needed, but it could've been a useful little feature at times, if not entirely fitting with the "realism".

It shouldn't happen but ... will test some more?

You might be right! Most times I've had hostages die (Embassy Level. Pain.) it's because of a hail of bullets, but sometimes it looks like my trooper's fire first. I could be wrong!


I can't stop playing the demo. I'm going to perfect that Embassy level if it kills me. Thanks for replying!
Last edited by Benlightenment; Jun 3, 2013 @ 4:30pm
Benlightenment Jun 3, 2013 @ 5:21pm 
Phew... that took me far too long. But that was a fantastic feeling of success (and relief) in the end!

http://i.imgur.com/3NfhTGK.jpg
Vulpe Nebuna  [developer] Jun 3, 2013 @ 5:44pm 
Cool! Man, we really need replays for this :)
Ceceli Jun 5, 2013 @ 12:29pm 
I found out why I couldn't bit the level 9. And it's something that needs a tweak.

I set one guy camping behind the car with both alleys on sight so he can cover the other one's back. When a enemy shows up in which one of the alleys, the guy automatic aims at him, moving his whole body and losing the original angle of sight. He needs to get back to the default angle of sight after engaging the enemy, so he can spot both ways if another enemy comes.
Last edited by Ceceli; Jun 5, 2013 @ 12:30pm
KillHouse Games  [developer] Jun 6, 2013 @ 12:55am 
@Ceceli if you need him to come back to the initial target, set the coverage angle using r-click. If someone comes in his cone of view, he'll engage the enemy and then come back to the original direction.
Ceceli Jun 6, 2013 @ 1:56am 
Well, there must be something wrong then. I'll check it out again since you're saying it, but the enemy came from the right, the swat guy turned right automaticly to focus on him and didn't turn to the middle position with the cone pointing to both left and right, so he got shot from the left.
Benlightenment Jun 6, 2013 @ 10:23am 
Ceceli is right, I've had this happen quite often to me too. It's easily reproducible on level 20: Bomb Defusal Training (it's where I noticed it happening to me a lot)

http://imgur.com/a/WsQRT
1. Move a trooper into the bottom right corner of the first room, covering both doors.
2. Wait for him to take out the two who come from the room at the North.

After he's done that, even with the angle set, he doesn't return to the original view and keeps his aim focused on the northern door, which means he often misses people coming through the west door.
Granted, this may not be a bug and could be a way to keep players focused and make sure they're on top of everything, but it can be a bit fiddly.
Ceceli Jun 6, 2013 @ 10:28am 
I'm finding this game very hard. At least from the tactical point of view, it's a suicide mission. In most of the levels you only have a few guys to cover a big area (i.e. 2 guys and 15 rooms and a lot of enemies.) And you still expect me to finish the level under 30 seconds or so.. haha
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