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Divekick
SithPL Mar 19, 2013 @ 4:02pm
DIVUUUKICKUUU
I played this last year at UFGT8 and CEO 2012. I've constantly pestered Keits about releasing it to the public, and this is just as great!

DON'T LET ME DOWN PEOPLE!
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Showing 1-15 of 43 comments
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 19, 2013 @ 6:46pm 
meh all I see is an inside joke for fighting game enthusiasts.

Do they have any videos of people enjoy playing it casually for more than 15 minutes? or is it all tournament or convention testplaying? It seems to me that most people that has played it hasn't played it for very long at a time? Does this game actually last?
Fireblaster Mar 19, 2013 @ 11:24pm 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
meh all I see is an inside joke for fighting game enthusiasts.

Do they have any videos of people enjoy playing it casually for more than 15 minutes? or is it all tournament or convention testplaying? It seems to me that most people that has played it hasn't played it for very long at a time? Does this game actually last?

Well your question is unfair because the only time this game has been playable is at tournaments and convention test playing.
banana Mar 19, 2013 @ 11:30pm 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
meh all I see is an inside joke for fighting game enthusiasts.

Do they have any videos of people enjoy playing it casually for more than 15 minutes? or is it all tournament or convention testplaying? It seems to me that most people that has played it hasn't played it for very long at a time? Does this game actually last?

I think the game is full of obscure references and humor, and sure not everyone will get everything, but it's not like this was meant to be the game's main selling point; they're just there for people to discover if they happen to know about it. It's also the proof that this game has gone through a lot of back and forth with the fighting game community; it has had negative feedback, but it's also had an overwhelming amount of support.

A lot of people played it for HOURS when I was at UFGT8 (myself included). It's only been featured in tournaments, conventions etc. since the game hasn't been released yet. I tried the prototype version and it's pretty addicting. The controls are as simple as they get, but there's an impressive amount of depth. I played it for the better part of the UFGT8 tournament and I was also participating in 2 other fighting games during that time. I'm honest to god looking forward to playing it once it's finally released.
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 20, 2013 @ 3:03am 
Originally posted by ☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻:
Well your question is unfair because the only time this game has been playable is at tournaments and convention test playing.
It's unfair because it's relevant but can't be answered satisfactory?
I don't think it is unfair. I think it is a valid concern, something that needs to be brought up and considered.
I did not intend it as a demand. As a demand it would indeed have been unfair. But it was as you phrased it just a question.
Originally posted by EL FUERTE MACHO:

A lot of people played it for HOURS when I was at UFGT8 (myself included). It's only been featured in tournaments, conventions etc. since the game hasn't been released yet.
Was that hours in one continious playsession or short play sessions spread out over much longer time? Or are you counting the entire time you were in proximity of the game including when you were waiting for your turn? Hopefully not that last one. I'm just asking for clarification.


Personally I find that some games are given a special amplified feeling of fun when you don't get full controll of how much you get to play it. Like when you play it at a friends house or similar. That feeling can be as deceptive as nostalgia imo.
I have no idea if this is happening to this game or not but I'd just thought I'd put it out there.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Mar 20, 2013 @ 5:59am
banana Mar 20, 2013 @ 4:02am 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
Was that hours in one continious playsession or short play sessions spread out over much longer time? Or are you counting the entire time you were in proximity of the game including when you were waiting for your turn? Hopefully not that last one. I'm just asking for clarification.


Personally I find that some games are given a special amplified feeling of fun when you don't get full controll of how much you get to play it. Like when you play it at a friends house or similar. That feeling can be as deceptive as nostalgia imo.
I have no idea if this is happening to this game or not but I'd just thought I'd put it out there.

If you lost you would sometimes have to wait since there were a limited amount of stations, but the game was pretty fast paced so the wait was minimal. In general, having the novelty wear off was something I was suspicious off as well. Oddly enough, whenever I lost I would actually feel pretty salty about it, and could only think about exactly what it was that I did wrong and how to get take revenge, lol. I would get pretty big win streaks though, so it was mostly continuous playing, I'd say 2-3 hour sessions at a time which is a long time considering the setting. The process behind outsmarting the opponent is just fun.

I would say it gets boring if you're just dominating people who don't understand how the game works at all since there would be no challenge. It's very likely that this game will have a higher number of average/above average players due to its design. My playing it over the weekend at UFGT8 netted me 3rd place at the Divekick tournament they held.. I was only topped by playtesters of the prototype.
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 20, 2013 @ 5:56am 
Originally posted by EL FUERTE MACHO:
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
Was that hours in one continious playsession or short play sessions spread out over much longer time? Or are you counting the entire time you were in proximity of the game including when you were waiting for your turn? Hopefully not that last one. I'm just asking for clarification.


Personally I find that some games are given a special amplified feeling of fun when you don't get full controll of how much you get to play it. Like when you play it at a friends house or similar. That feeling can be as deceptive as nostalgia imo.
I have no idea if this is happening to this game or not but I'd just thought I'd put it out there.

If you lost you would sometimes have to wait since there were a limited amount of stations, but the game was pretty fast paced so the wait was minimal. In general, having the novelty wear off was something I was suspicious off as well. Oddly enough, whenever I lost I would actually feel pretty salty about it, and could only think about exactly what it was that I did wrong and how to get take revenge, lol. I would get pretty big win streaks though, so it was mostly continuous playing, I'd say 2-3 hour sessions at a time which is a long time considering the setting. The process behind outsmarting the opponent is just fun.

I would say it gets boring if you're just dominating people who don't understand how the game works at all since there would be no challenge. It's very likely that this game will have a higher number of average/above average players due to its design. My playing it over the weekend at UFGT8 netted me 3rd place at the Divekick tournament they held.. I was only topped by playtesters of the prototype.
Would you say this can or is likely to appeal to gamers that doesn't go visit UFGT? (UFGT is just fighting games right? or do they have other genres represented too?)

For example the only fighting games I can recall playing atm is Streetfighter 2, Killer Instinct (on the N64) and the Tekken series. (most dominantly the tekken series which is probably why the divekick injoke or whatever just doesn't seem all that funny to me.) Obviously I'm not really interested in the fighting games genre (I mostly just recall blisters when thinking back on beat em ups) at least not as much as I used to..
What does this game have to offer me? What does it do to try to pull me in? From the pitch it seemed like the devs thought it would appeal to people new to fighting games or people that stopped playing fighting games some time ago and looking for a way back in. But all I see is a game that has refined and distilled the essence of tournament kind of gameplay and removed any and all introduction to the genre. You have to know specialized terms (that I only heard in the UFGT vid I watched) to play this in a manner where you get any fun out of it.
Audi A9 Sportback Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:55am 
This game should get this guy as DLC for 8,95€.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ccog02xSIo
I know Scott Steiner doesn´t really fit in this game, but i want a character, who hates Canada and has funny mic skills.

And the preorder should contain TF2 Items.
Last edited by Audi A9 Sportback; Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:59am
banana Mar 20, 2013 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
Would you say this can or is likely to appeal to gamers that doesn't go visit UFGT? (UFGT is just fighting games right? or do they have other genres represented too?)

For example the only fighting games I can recall playing atm is Streetfighter 2, Killer Instinct (on the N64) and the Tekken series. (most dominantly the tekken series which is probably why the divekick injoke or whatever just doesn't seem all that funny to me.) Obviously I'm not really interested in the fighting games genre (I mostly just recall blisters when thinking back on beat em ups) at least not as much as I used to..
What does this game have to offer me? What does it do to try to pull me in? From the pitch it seemed like the devs thought it would appeal to people new to fighting games or people that stopped playing fighting games some time ago and looking for a way back in. But all I see is a game that has refined and distilled the essence of tournament kind of gameplay and removed any and all introduction to the genre. You have to know specialized terms (that I only heard in the UFGT vid I watched) to play this in a manner where you get any fun out of it.

UFGT stands for Ultimate Fighting Game Tournament. As the name suggests, it's a fighting game tournament, but it also hosted a variety of other games. It had an arcade style room where you could play Divekick, card games, and redemption games with a twist (take skee ball for example, but you played against an opponent). Winning or losing netted you tickets you could redeem for prizes.

As expected, there's plenty of people that don't go to tournaments like UFGT, but buy fighting games; they probably comprise the vast majority of sales. The reason it's featured on such events is that Divekick is guaranteed to get playtime from fighting game players of all levels.

I think Adam Heart/Keits (designer) explained it pretty well at some point: when you lose, you know exactly why, and you will feel stupid about it. On the other hand, you can easily get to the point where you learn how to completely control the opponent and strip him away of all options. I think getting that kinda feeling without learning nothing but fighting games over the years is amazing, specially when you're doing this through your own effort and not just abusing some horribly overpowered move or tactic. This is how it's meant to reintroduce people to the genre.

To be honest, I think their initial video had a little too much Dave Lang in it, and I wish more of the previous paragraph would be shown in their pitch, but I think their next event is PAX East, and they're going to talk a lot more about the game and its progress during that time.
Last edited by banana; Mar 20, 2013 @ 12:33pm
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 20, 2013 @ 3:05pm 
Thank you for your insights EL FUERTE MACHO. It has been a suprisingly pleasant discussion, however I don't see anything that actually adress my concerns. I think I'll end up pressing the no thanks after all. Good luck to all of you and to Dave Lang + his kickdive buddies.
banana Mar 20, 2013 @ 3:36pm 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
Thank you for your insights EL FUERTE MACHO. It has been a suprisingly pleasant discussion, however I don't see anything that actually adress my concerns. I think I'll end up pressing the no thanks after all. Good luck to all of you and to Dave Lang + his kickdive buddies.

What concerns weren't addressed? Try to be specific so I can do the same if possible. If it happens to be the case that you're on the fence on it, I'm not going to ask you to pick yes, but maybe consider not pressing no just yet. ^^

Either way, it's good this discussion is here, that way people looking for more details can find some info from the perspective of someone who tried it (and liked it). Thanks for showing interest! :D
Last edited by banana; Mar 20, 2013 @ 3:58pm
trenog Mar 20, 2013 @ 4:01pm 
Get me some GGPO stat!
Nut in my Butt Mar 21, 2013 @ 1:36am 
kid just wants a reason to press no while annoying as many people as possible
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 21, 2013 @ 4:45pm 
I'm sorry. "addressed" and "concern" was probably the wrong words. But I thought my main point/question whatever was obvious since it was present in all my posts.

What about casual gamers? What's the selling point to people outside of the league/tournament scene?

In retrospect I should have clarified that I wanted "response from testers outside of the leage/tournament scene" as I see EL FUERTE MACHO feels that it is guaranteed to appeal to all levels of fighting game players and my only available data (as none has been provided from the divekick team or EFM) I can make judgement on counters that (that data would be myself as I do not feel that I am interested in what he describes in that paragraph following his assurance.) I have repeatedly insinuated that while the player input in simplified the mechanics does not seem to be, contrary to how I read the greenlight description. I don't know if this is an oversight, misunderstanding or what but I feel it a bit disapointing as it does not infact connect with me as a gamer at all. It feels like it is aimed exclusivly at tournament players.

Since EL FUERTE MACHO couldn't answer that question (if I'm reading between the lines correctly) and ☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻: pretty much hit the nail on the head with his comment about there not existing any such video (because it probably hasn't really been looked into) I thought It was simply an un-answereble question for now.

I'm sorry you have that low thoughts about me BRZ. I did try to have a discussion but I did not get what I wanted out of it, and it got to the point where I was convinced that I never would.
I don't know why me not buying this game would annoy you? Or why I would need a reason to press no? I only need a reason to press yes, as it is my money and I can't spend it on every game on greenlight as I don't have enough for that.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Mar 21, 2013 @ 4:46pm
banana Mar 22, 2013 @ 1:20am 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
I'm sorry. "addressed" and "concern" was probably the wrong words. But I thought my main point/question whatever was obvious since it was present in all my posts.

What about casual gamers? What's the selling point to people outside of the league/tournament scene?

The inputs are simple, and the mechanics are simple. The selling point is that it allows casual gamers to get their feet wet and make full use of what the game has to offer right away. Compare this to a game like Street Fighter 4, where learning how to do a combo with optimal damage can take months of practice and even research into the intricacies of the game. Heck, depending on the character some basic combos can take a long time. Performing a super o ultra combo consistently can be frustrating. This isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a lot of people simply aren't interested in approaching a game with that level of commitment because doing so is not fun to them.

SF4 can be appealing to a casual crowd too, but its usually for different reasons: nostalgia, cinematic super moves, graphics, etc.

The reason why a game with simple inputs and mechanics could appeal to tournament players is because finding the most clever ways to use these simple things to their fullest is not trivial, and doing so (and consequently getting better) is fun to said type of player.

Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
I have repeatedly insinuated that while the player input in simplified the mechanics does not seem to be, contrary to how I read the greenlight description. I don't know if this is an oversight, misunderstanding or what but I feel it a bit disapointing as it does not infact connect with me as a gamer at all. It feels like it is aimed exclusivly at tournament players.

Like I mentioned, the mechanics are simplified as well. You might be confusing the game's potential for depth with the mechanics laid out for the player.

Here's all there is in regards to mechanics:
- Gems: a trinket that will give you a small boost. Selected before you start.
- Headshots: stun the opponent for a limited time the next round, reducing their speed and jump height.
- Jump: press dive
- Kickback: kick on the ground to move you back
- Kick factor: you have a meter that fills up as you kick. If it's full, it activates automatically giving you a significant speed and jump height boost for a limited time.
- Techniques: dive+kick on the ground or in the air will spend some of your meter to do an ability unique to the character you use.

Techniques were one of the things revealed at PAX East so far.

I'm pretty sure as more "making of" videos are released here they will go in-depth on the game. Hope this helps~
Last edited by banana; Mar 22, 2013 @ 1:30am
Gorlom[Swe] Mar 22, 2013 @ 8:24am 
Originally posted by EL FUERTE MACHO:
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
I'm sorry. "addressed" and "concern" was probably the wrong words. But I thought my main point/question whatever was obvious since it was present in all my posts.

What about casual gamers? What's the selling point to people outside of the league/tournament scene?

The inputs are simple, and the mechanics are simple. The selling point is that it allows casual gamers to get their feet wet and make full use of what the game has to offer right away. Compare this to a game like Street Fighter 4, where learning how to do a combo with optimal damage can take months of practice and even research into the intricacies of the game. Heck, depending on the character some basic combos can take a long time. Performing a super o ultra combo consistently can be frustrating. This isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a lot of people simply aren't interested in approaching a game with that level of commitment because doing so is not fun to them.
I don't know if you see it or not. But this answer right here is as I see it about hardcore gamers, not casual gamers. You are talking about the minmaxers and tournament players. I do not feel that you are not talking about entry level players at all. As soon as you talk about the biggest most complex combo in the game you are imo talking about the enthusiasts not the entry level players.
Think button mashers instead of people that can block their way through the super combos.
To them the timing of when to divekick is as random as a dice roll.

SF4 can be appealing to a casual crowd too, but its usually for different reasons: nostalgia, cinematic super moves, graphics, etc.

The reason why a game with simple inputs and mechanics could appeal to tournament players is because finding the most clever ways to use these simple things to their fullest is not trivial, and doing so (and consequently getting better) is fun to said type of player.
I'm well aware of this. I see the complexity in divekick. It is the simple pleasure that I have a hard time seeing. It looks to me like you need to understand the complexety in the game to be able to enjoy it. And whilöe I see the complexity I do not infact understand it. For a fighting game player of my skill it looks repetetive and random (slightly paradoxial I know but that is how I see it.)

Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
I have repeatedly insinuated that while the player input in simplified the mechanics does not seem to be, contrary to how I read the greenlight description. I don't know if this is an oversight, misunderstanding or what but I feel it a bit disapointing as it does not infact connect with me as a gamer at all. It feels like it is aimed exclusivly at tournament players.

Like I mentioned, the mechanics are simplified as well. You might be confusing the game's potential for depth with the mechanics laid out for the player.

Here's all there is in regards to mechanics:
- Gems: a trinket that will give you a small boost. Selected before you start.
- Headshots: stun the opponent for a limited time the next round, reducing their speed and jump height.
- Jump: press dive
- Kickback: kick on the ground to move you back
- Kick factor: you have a meter that fills up as you kick. If it's full, it activates automatically giving you a significant speed and jump height boost for a limited time.
- Techniques: dive+kick on the ground or in the air will spend some of your meter to do an ability unique to the character you use.

Techniques were one of the things revealed at PAX East so far.

I'm pretty sure as more "making of" videos are released here they will go in-depth on the game. Hope this helps~

A few posts back I mentioned the fighting games I've been playing. I do not recall any of them containing gems, meters or the sudden death red line.
The "zone control" and "mirror match" seems to me to be brought out into the light and become a necessity to know about in this game and not just something tournament players talk about.

But this isn't really relevant to anyones enjoyment of the game. It is just my personal gripe with the description on greenlight. I guess we could drop that bit and consider me conceeding on the point?
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Mar 22, 2013 @ 8:27am
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