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Hammerwatch
Kuehnau 2013년 4월 9일 오전 12시 39분
Hammerwatch - Not What I Expected.
So I tried Hammerwatch, they have a free open beta you can try out, so I thought I'd give it a go.

When I first started playing the game, I really enjoyed it. It reminded me a lot of some of the older games I used to play as a kid. It has a really strong feeling of games such as NetHack and Gauntlet.

As I played the game a little bit more I started to dislike it gradually as I played.

The game looks wonderful, the pixel art is really amazing for this game, but as I quickly found out, the screen shots that you see are pretty much it. I was really disappointed to find out that the game is basically all set in a dungeon and it looks pretty much the same. Why isn't there more areas and zones? It feels like the game drags on. After 20 mins or so I was already asking myself why the stage hasn't ended and when I'd see something new.

I think the game needs to go into a different direction instead and go into some sort of stage based game play and have short bursts of dungeons that are in a varying different number of themes instead of the same one on different floors. If I felt a faster sense of progression I think I'd feel better about the game. Even Gauntlet had different levels.

Another thing that was bothering me, but I couldn't figure out right away was the fact that damage was represented as numbers, as if you could somehow progress your character level, but there was no clear indication that you actually could.

As I played the game I discovered what exactly it was that you had to do. The game, as far as I can tell relies totally and completely on money. In order to get any upgrades or learn any new abilities, you have to buy them.

I don't like that at all. As a dungeon crawl, it feels like it has heavy rpg elements, but it really doesn't. The fact my character doesn't have his own form of character progression really annoys me. I don't feel I should have to pay gold to upgrade my health, I should level up.

Another thing I really didn't like was the lack of any sort of inventory or equipment system. As a hack N' slash and dungeon crawl, one of the biggest points should be finding oodles of treasure and equipment and stuff. Except you don't in this game. You simply wade through hordes of monsters to get some gold, buy some upgrades, rinse and repeat.

When you get right down to it, the bare bones of the game, it feels really shallow, it feels super repetitive and I quickly lost interest, three times as quickly as I had developed any interest to begin with.

I mean, I get what they were trying to do, and they did tap into a bit of my nostalgia, but they didn't do enough work to actually capture my attention. Games like NetHack and Gauntlet were amazing at the time, but as anyone knows, they would eventually evolve into bigger, better titles. Giving me that sweet sense of my childhood back only gets you so far and it's not enough to actually get me to buy the game.

I feel as though the developers might have had something really special with this, but the direction they are going is totally wrong.
35개 중 1-15 표시중
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hipshot  [개발자] 2013년 4월 9일 오전 3시 24분 
I've read everything you wrote. I'm sorry you feel that way.

The mechanics are really simple, yes and they are meant to be like that. As you progress further into the game, you will unlock more skills, abilities and the look and layout of the levels changes significantly too, with traps, secrests, enemies...

This game could be a lot more, I agree, but then it's a completely different game!
Mocado 2013년 4월 9일 오전 8시 46분 
Thanks for this analysis Kuehnau. No epic loot system + endless same tileset dungeon means I'd probably get bored way too fast.
Kuehnau 2013년 4월 9일 오전 9시 51분 
I don't like the economy you designed in the game, I have always hated the concept that champions would need to use money to increase their skills or abilities. I mean you literally spend gold in order to upgrade your health and speed.

The reality is, besides the direct threat monsters prove to be, I can see no reason why the player(s) shouldn't simply avoid monsters. They have yet to offer any sort of loot or gold drops, they offer no sort of experience points, all they do is block your path. As I played the game I was literally planning on which way I should go based on the least amount of monsters.

As as far as the game world goes, the most I have seen in dungeon design is a pallet swap with the tile, but perhaps the developers are unwilling to show anything else or no players have gotten that far, I don't know. As far as " traps, secrets, enemies..." are concerned, that is there only to enhance a dungeon, that doesn't mean I won't still bored with the same tileset over and over again. And like I said before, I don't really care about the monsters, I am more into avoiding them instead of killing them and when I have to, it's not, "Wow look at that neat monster," it's more like, "Jesus more cannon fodder to chop down."

You are right, it'd be a different game, because it'd be better.
[GFL][iN] Bangin! 2013년 5월 22일 오후 10시 52분 
if you want an RPG play an RPG... its a simple as that.
Kuehnau 2013년 5월 23일 오전 1시 16분 
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
if you want an RPG play an RPG... its a simple as that.

Shut up, you seriously add nothing to the conversation. Have you even played the beta? I am simply letting people know what the game actually is like.

I am tired of people just blindly supporting indie titles because they are "indie" it's a really bad habit and is going to lead to more junk like Dungeon Land.

The game kind of comes off as RPG-ish in it's own way, but really in a half-♥♥♥♥♥ sort of way.

The developer blew of what I had to say and that's their business, but last time I played the game it was really shallow, all of the stuff looked the same and any sense of progression was completely lost as you wander around the same places constantly. I couldn't even see spending a buck on the title.
Kuehnau님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 5월 23일 오전 1시 18분
[GFL][iN] Bangin! 2013년 5월 23일 오후 3시 36분 
i played the beta twice and i like it because i like gauntlet... i have no idea who makes the game and i dont care to be honest. this game isnt an RPG and thats clearly what you want... thats all im saying
Kuehnau 2013년 5월 23일 오후 4시 02분 
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
i played the beta twice and i like it because i like gauntlet... i have no idea who makes the game and i dont care to be honest. this game isnt an RPG and thats clearly what you want... thats all im saying

The game is "clearly" not a RPG? Is that what you are saying? So then would you care to explain the character progression? The hit points? The character classes?

You need to look up the definition of "clearly" because you don't have it right.

Even if you "like" gauntlet, which I do too, the game isn't inspired ENOUGH for it to be a solid gauntlet clone.

Gauntlet was set up as an arcade quality dungeon crawl. With stages and levels. Secret short cuts, that sort of thing.

I played the beta for about an hour and I felt like I was going no where, because there wasn't any end to the stage, everything looked the same and it felt like it dragged on forever.

At least Gauntlet changed the pace up a little bit.

If that's what they were going for, they should have had varying stages that didn't drag on forever and that actually looked different besides color changes.
[GFL][iN] Bangin! 2013년 5월 23일 오후 6시 21분 
You're right it is an RPG, Just not in the way you want it to be. What i ment was diffrent weapons, armors, a level system, etc.. This game has stages and levels too, along with secret short cuts. There was an end to the first stage (the boss) and the reason everything looked the same in the beta is because it was the first stage. you literally climb a castle in the game and the beta is only set in the basement/prison. i get what you're saying and i would totally agree for a sequel, but i think this game is perfect the way it is. i played gauntlet, gauntlet 2 more so because it was better when i was a kid and if im not mistaken this game is VERY similar to gauntlet 1 and 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWDkzxBUaE.
Kuehnau 2013년 5월 25일 오전 7시 43분 
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
You're right it is an RPG, Just not in the way you want it to be. What i ment was diffrent weapons, armors, a level system, etc.. This game has stages and levels too, along with secret short cuts. There was an end to the first stage (the boss) and the reason everything looked the same in the beta is because it was the first stage. you literally climb a castle in the game and the beta is only set in the basement/prison. i get what you're saying and i would totally agree for a sequel, but i think this game is perfect the way it is. i played gauntlet, gauntlet 2 more so because it was better when i was a kid and if im not mistaken this game is VERY similar to gauntlet 1 and 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWDkzxBUaE.

Its far from perfect.
FreekyMage 2013년 5월 26일 오전 6시 14분 
I do agree that it feels weird to buy all your upgrades. Weapons/armor I can understand, but hp and mana... If I don't go for all the secrets it makes the game a lot harder later on because I have less money. They could add this functionality as a modifier if they don't want to change the current feel of the game. Feels like modifiers should be available in SP too btw.
Flash 2013년 5월 29일 오후 2시 27분 
Kuehnau님이 먼저 게시:
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
if you want an RPG play an RPG... its a simple as that.

Shut up, you seriously add nothing to the conversation. Have you even played the beta? I am simply letting people know what the game actually is like.

I am tired of people just blindly supporting indie titles because they are "indie" it's a really bad habit and is going to lead to more junk like Dungeon Land.

The game kind of comes off as RPG-ish in it's own way, but really in a half-♥♥♥♥♥ sort of way.

The developer BLEW OFF WHAT I HAD TO SAY and that's their business, but last time I played the game it was really shallow, all of the stuff looked the same and any sense of progression was completely lost as you wander around the same places constantly. I couldn't even see spending a buck on the title.

Just wanted to chime in... the dev did not blow you off. He read everything you wrote and replied in kind... how is that blowing off just because he didnt want to change the game drastically from his vision to conform to you?????
Swiggity Swootie 2013년 5월 29일 오후 3시 32분 
Kuehnau님이 먼저 게시:
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
i played the beta twice and i like it because i like gauntlet... i have no idea who makes the game and i dont care to be honest. this game isnt an RPG and thats clearly what you want... thats all im saying

The game is "clearly" not a RPG? Is that what you are saying? So then would you care to explain the character progression? The hit points? The character classes?

You need to look up the definition of "clearly" because you don't have it right.

Even if you "like" gauntlet, which I do too, the game isn't inspired ENOUGH for it to be a solid gauntlet clone.

Gauntlet was set up as an arcade quality dungeon crawl. With stages and levels. Secret short cuts, that sort of thing.

I played the beta for about an hour and I felt like I was going no where, because there wasn't any end to the stage, everything looked the same and it felt like it dragged on forever.

At least Gauntlet changed the pace up a little bit.

If that's what they were going for, they should have had varying stages that didn't drag on forever and that actually looked different besides color changes.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument from an equally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ person. According to your shoddy definition, Call of Duty is an RPG too. It has progression, hit points, and classes.

This is NOT an RPG. This is an action game.The same way Zelda is an action game and not an RPG.
Camphi 2013년 5월 29일 오후 4시 19분 
I saw a video of the Yogscast playing it and I admit that it looks quite fun. It reminds me of that one old arcade game called Gauntlet. It seems to me that it is a whole lot more fun to play with friends than by yourself. That's somewhat how I play my games, with friends. It seems like I enjoy it a whole lot more like that.
Birdd 2013년 5월 29일 오후 5시 21분 
GFLiN Mystery님이 먼저 게시:
i played the beta twice and i like it because i like gauntlet... i have no idea who makes the game and i dont care to be honest. this game isnt an RPG and thats clearly what you want... thats all im saying

I was bored of Gauntlet after a short amount of time, just like I was in this game.

But then, Gauntlet Legends introduced this wonderful leveling system where you get stronger and eventually earn combat pets that assist you...totally kept me hooked to the game.

I honestly think giving the monsters a point by giving XP would make this game worthwhile, as long as leveling did something half interesting
Ozymandias J. Llewellyn 2013년 5월 29일 오후 5시 55분 
I personally like the system in place, and I would hate to see it changed. It rewards careful dungeon crawling and a good eye for secrets with gold, and rewards you if you kill monsters because that lets you easily access the gold. I tried SEVERAL times to kill the smallest number of monsters possible while completing the game, and it really isn't possible to just bypass the monsters and get all the gold without HOURS of kiting, and you aren't completing the game without some form of upgrade. It's much much easier to just slash your way through them to get to the gold, and they are always surrounded by gold, therefore your reward for killing the monsters is XP, in the form of gold.

Furthermore, there are secret areas that look different, and I feel the pace of the game is nice. The game ended right where I expected it to (where it would be the next act). You have to remember that if you beat the game, you played only 1/4th of it (even less probably because the later acts are probably larger.)
Ozymandias J. Llewellyn님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 5월 29일 오후 5시 59분
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