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Bransor Aug 21, 2013 @ 3:19pm
Do Green Light games have to release a final Game
Wondering if Green light games have some kind of aggreement that they sign indicating that if they are part of the Green light program, that they will release a final product.
1. Is there anything preventing a Green game from sitting around Steam for multiple years charging money for a Alpha release of their game?
or
Do they accept some kind of aggreement in everyones best interest, like:
they will release a final product after "X" number of days after being accepted to the Green Light program.

I ask because I was looking and researching Kenshi, and the guy who was previewing the game mentioned that the game was in development for 6 years and isn't even close to being complete.
I think Green Game Developers should have a mandatory rule to post on the main page how long the Game has been in development and a ETA on when they expect to have it completed. I also think it would be good, if it's not already required, for the developers to have a roadmap and approximate time table of the game game buildout. This is a business afterall, isn't it?

Thanks all,

Brannon
Last edited by Bransor; Aug 21, 2013 @ 3:20pm
Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
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Skoardy Aug 21, 2013 @ 3:57pm 
You want a company for whom the term "Valve Time" was created to mandate that other developers must provide a solid ETA for when their games will come out?
AusSkiller Aug 21, 2013 @ 4:29pm 
Originally posted by Skoardy:
You want a company for whom the term "Valve Time" was created to mandate that other developers must provide a solid ETA for when their games will come out?
LOL, exactly. The time it takes to develop a game development is nearly impossible to predict, if an ETA was established then well over 90% of games would fail to meet the ETA and people would just get really ♥♥♥♥ed off. That's why when a developer is asked when their game will be released most developers just say "when it's done".

What needs to happen is for people to just learn to be patient, game development is very time consuming.
Mivo Aug 21, 2013 @ 7:28pm 
No, as far as anyone knows, there is no such requirement. There doesn't appear to be one for Early Access games, either. Towns is a good example - no updates of any kind in four months, and the game is barely playable. This applies to various other EA games (I still love the irony of the abbreviation) as well.

You're running the risk of wasting money and Valve will not refund you. I do wonder about the legal aspects of this (and believe there is probably some kind of period after which you can demand a refund if a game is not released), but getting that cleared up costs much more than the games. It's best to simply not buy EA games unless you really do have faith in the developer.
Mivo Aug 21, 2013 @ 8:42pm 
It would cost money to get that question settled. I'm relatively sure that there is a point after which a court would deem it unreasonable to not provide a refund for something you paid in advance for, but never received. But it's likely to be tricky. I just don't believe that it would fly that, say, a company collects money for an EA game and then discontinues the development (possibly without announcing it) while keeping the money. I want to say that it would surprise me if Valve did not consider this in the contracts with developers, but the truth is: it wouldn't.

But yes, as a customer you probably have no chance to get your money back unless you go through the legal system or at least through an attorney, and in either case you'd pay a lot more than you paid for the game. That is why schemes of that type (in general, not in particular) work. Customers may be in the right, but lack the means of enforcement.
Bransor Aug 23, 2013 @ 9:33am 
Thanks for the comments. I backed a game recently on Kickstarter, and the develper has a nice road map with approximate dates. It's quite detailed and nice to be able to see what that guy has on his mind for his game, and that he's really put alot of thought into it and onto paper for all of the backers to read. I completely understand dates have to be taken with a grain of salt. But on the same note, date can be good to keep the pressure on the devs to keep at it. In a sense, the folks who back/buy the game concepts and alpha builds are the investors. And I think the Dev's have a obligation to the investors to provide timely communication on the development of the game and a roadmap. Again, I understand times and plans change. But at least it's a rough plan that the investors can go back to and somewhat hold the Devs accountable.
Gorlom[Swe] Aug 23, 2013 @ 10:50am 
Originally posted by Bransor:
are the investors.
No, croud funding doesn't work that way. You are not an investor (or even a customer... I think), you are a donor. That the owner of the kickstarter/indiegogo/crowdfunding project offers something in return (down the line) for your donation does not change your role from donor to something else.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Aug 23, 2013 @ 10:50am
Bransor Aug 23, 2013 @ 11:10am 
I see. Very go explanation. I thought we were paying money for the developers time to make the game, and test it reporting bugs, ideas, and such.
Mivo Aug 23, 2013 @ 1:47pm 
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
No, croud funding doesn't work that way. You are not an investor (or even a customer... I think), you are a donor.

It is somewhere in between donor and customer. With Kickstarter, the project owner is required to deliver the product, otherwise Kickstarter will take the money back and (as far as I understand) return it to the backers. With Early Access, there doesn't seem to be any such requirement, which is ironic, considering that getting an Early Access game is very clearly not a donation.

(In neither case are you an investor, though, as that would mean you'd get a share of the profits.)
Last edited by Mivo; Aug 23, 2013 @ 1:48pm
wilco64256 Aug 23, 2013 @ 1:55pm 
Originally posted by Mivo:
With Kickstarter, the project owner is required to deliver the product, otherwise Kickstarter will take the money back and (as far as I understand) return it to the backers.

That's not correct at all. Kickstarter has no way of taking the money back or anything like that.
Gorlom[Swe] Aug 23, 2013 @ 2:11pm 
Originally posted by Mivo:
Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
No, croud funding doesn't work that way. You are not an investor (or even a customer... I think), you are a donor.

It is somewhere in between donor and customer. With Kickstarter, the project owner is required to deliver the product, otherwise Kickstarter will take the money back and (as far as I understand) return it to the backers.
I don't think that's possible. Kickstarter would need to withhold the funds untill the project is completed in that case which would defeat the point of kickstarter and make a very wierd loan situation. It would also be impossible to return the complete sum as both kickstarter and amazon (used for the secure handeling of payment) has taken their cut.
There has been some articles about projects failing to come through with thier promises (I think the most prominent one was some sort of Ipad holding fixture) Kickstarter was totally without responsibility and it was up to the kickstarted projects owner to handle the refunds.
I'm 99.5% sure that if you read kickstarters terms of service (or whatever the fineprint is called) that kickstarters involvement is over after a project has reached its goal and the money has gone through. That they are in now way responsible for the delivery of a product. Although I probably should read up on that again no matter how sure I am.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=faq_nav#Acco

Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?

No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds as transactions are between backers and creators directly. Creators receive all funds (less fees) soon after their campaign ends. Creators have the ability to refund backers through Amazon Payments (for US projects) and Kickstarter (for non-US projects)
The kickstarted is contractually bound to provide the rewards or offer refunds but Kickstarter will not be involved in doing so other than as a service to enable the kickstarted projects owner to pay back... If the guy with your money is trying to dodge this you need to drag him to court rather than expect kickstarter to do it for you.

Originally posted by Mivo:
With Early Access, there doesn't seem to be any such requirement, which is ironic, considering that getting an Early Access game is very clearly not a donation.

(In neither case are you an investor, though, as that would mean you'd get a share of the profits.)
I was only thinking of kickstarter and indiegogo when I said that. Early access is imo more akin to prepurchase than crowdfunding.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Aug 23, 2013 @ 2:20pm
Mivo Aug 23, 2013 @ 3:00pm 
Thanks for the corrections! I did know about the contractual agreement to finish the project, and had (falsely) concluded from that bit that KS would enforce it, but apparently this is not the case. Sorry for the misinformation.
Gorlom[Swe] Aug 23, 2013 @ 7:51pm 
Xenonauts had a similar problem with paypal disliking alphafunding and freezing the money 2 years back or something.
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Date Posted: Aug 21, 2013 @ 3:19pm
Posts: 12