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Alesch Oct 3, 2013 @ 3:29pm
What happens when I click "No"?
I've gone through a few Greenlight submissions now, and something has been bothering me. I'm not exactly sure what the ramifications of my clicking "No" are to a Greenlight submission. The FAQs don't really help much, since they're written for developers. Greenlight apparently works via some sort of arcane process where games are sorted into a list based on how many upvotes they get, and then whenever Valve is feeling particularly magnanimous a few games from the top of the list are chosen for distribution. It's clear as mud, and I'm fine with that really, but I don't understand how the downvotes work exactly and it bothers me.

Does voting "No" to the question of "Would you buy this game if it was on Steam?" just remove the game from your queue without bringing it back up again later, as it would if you had selected "Ask me later"? I would be fine with this system, if that's the case, because there are plenty of games that I wouldn't buy, no matter how they were distributed and without making any kind of comment about their quality. I haven't had much interest in FPS games in almost a decade, so if I see an FPS on Greenlight my initial reaction is to click "No", because I would not buy it.

The problem is that I have a ♥♥♥♥ling suspicion that maybe, just maybe, clicking "No" negates a clicked "Yes". I'm not sure if downvotes are weighted against upvotes when Valve's popularity engine begins to whirr, and whistle, and grind out its rankings. I'll hover my mouse over the "No" button and wonder if maybe, just maybe, clicking "No" and admitting that I, personally, would not buy a certain game is in some way stamping on some poor indie dev's dreams of being able to eat! I will not have a hand in that! The guilt would be crippling, and so I click "Yes" to games that I would not, in fact, buy if they were on Steam. I click "Yes", and I console myself that it isn't really a lie, because I am not saying that "Yes" I, personally, would buy the game if it came out on Steam. I am saying that "I", the nameless, faceless mass of Steam gamers, would buy this game if it were on Steam. Only, that's a lie too, probably, because I can't speak for the nameless, faceless mass. I can only speak for myself.

So I end up feeling a bit guilty no matter what I click on, when I come across a game that I do not, personally, want to buy on Greenlight. So I would very much like to know if clicking "No" does, or does not, negate a "Yes".

tl;dr I don't know if a game's "No" votes are weighted against its "Yes" votes when determining their positions on Greenlight's ranking list, and I would very much like to know.
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Gorlom[Swe] Oct 3, 2013 @ 3:40pm 
Short and simple answer: The game is removed from your que. Nothing else.

Valve does not care about the no votes. It is of no interest to them if you do not intend to buy a game. The only thing of interest to them is if they will get money from you if they sell the game to you. Therefor only the yes votes have any weight.
Your NO vote will not cancel out some other guy's yes vote.
Clicking "no" is essentially the same thing as not clicking any button at all as far as the project is concerned.

PS: clicking the "yes" button on games you would not buy yourself is about the douchiest thing you can do, since you might block a project with honest "yes votes" by boosting that other game with pity votes..
Please don't do that. Just honestly answer the question. This is not youtube or facebook. It's not upvotes/downvotes, thumbs up or down or likes or dislike. It's a question about an economical decision.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Oct 3, 2013 @ 3:47pm
SirAser[ScopeEye] Oct 3, 2013 @ 4:15pm 
I agree(!) to Gorlom's answer(last part) - You should really just be honest and only vote up/yes, for games you would buy yourself!
Alesch Oct 3, 2013 @ 4:53pm 
Alright, thanks.
Live_2_Win Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:16pm 
As harsh as it sounds sometimes you do have to stamp on peoples dreams. We can't always get what we want, life just doesn't work that way. I blame Hollywood films for encouraging kids to "follow their dreams".

Now it would better to give that indie guy advertising a woeful concept with MS-Paint art a reality check and nip that dream in the bud right away, then have them build up this dellusion to the point that they become majorly irritating to everyone by thinking that their next game is basically binary Jesus come to save the world from the evil AAA corporations.

Now instead of following dreams, perhaps people should put in, I don't know, 10 to 20 years of getting good at programming or art or writing or whatever and THEN if they still feel like they can contribute something to this already grossly saturated industry, then see what happens.
Alesch Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:25pm 
Oh, that isn't really what I felt guilty about clicking no over. I didn't worry about saying no to a project that genuinely looked awful, or didn't seem to have the effort or professionalism put into their advertising material that I would expect. I felt guilty about clicking "No" to projects that genuinely looked good, but that were not in a genre that I was interested in. If voting "No" was actually detrimental to a project whose only sin was that it was, say, an RTS game, when I did not like RTS games as a genre, then I would feel guilty clicking "No".

Now that I know that a "No" vote doesn't effectively subtract from that projects "Yes" tally, I won't feel guilty about voting "No" in those cases where I think a game deserves to be on Steam, but that I would probably not buy their game myself. What I was unsure of was whether or not the question I was answering was genuinely whether I, me, myself, would buy the product on Steam, or if it was the implied question of "Do you think this game is good enough to be on Steam". Sometimes those two questions have different answers.
Gorlom[Swe] Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:26pm 
Alesch: In case you start to worry because of Chris1980's post: Ignore him. He has no idea how Greenlight works, what it is for, how things worked before public greenlight or even what it is he wants to do. (His steamgroup is bonkers)
He is often misusing terms as something completley different made up definition by him and behaving as if everyone is out to steal his money by submitting games to greenlight and early access. (I cant tell if he is paranoid or just extremely cynical)

Pressing the "no" button does not step on anyone's dream despite what Chris1980 thinks. (But pressing the yes button when you don't mean it does)
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:27pm
SirAser[ScopeEye] Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:46pm 
I partly agree to some of it - atm. greeenlight(the socalled "indie"-genre) is more starting to look like a counterpart to the X-Factor USA show - where we all have to listen to tons of people who have lost their realism and therefore without any ability to judge themselves(and there game) with more critical eyes ..it really starts to be tragicomic at first ..then incriminating and annoying if it continues.
Live_2_Win Oct 3, 2013 @ 5:50pm 
Originally posted by SirAserScopeEye:
I partly agree to some of it - atm. greeenlight(the socalled "indie"-genre) is more starting to look like a counterpart to the X-Factor USA show - where we all have to listen to tons of people who have lost their realism and therefore without any ability to judge themselves(and there game) with more critical eyes ..it really starts to be tragicomic at first ..then incriminating and annoying if it continues.

Yes I think thats spot on, its really turned into an X factor style circus where its less about finding the talent and more about the show.

If Steam had let through one title every 3 months, and made damn sure it was in stable condition first, then it may be a different story altogether now, idk.
AusSkiller Oct 3, 2013 @ 9:52pm 
Originally posted by chris1980:
Yes I think thats spot on, its really turned into an X factor style circus where its less about finding the talent and more about the show.
If you guys are going to use X factor as an analogy for greenlight then get it right, greenlight is the equivalent of only the initial auditioning part of it where tens of thousands of candidates in each major city are culled down to the few that can move onto the next round. Greenlight is exists to weed out the crap from the good amongst every game that publishers and developers want to put on Steam, it does not exist to pick the best of a select few, it is the process of deciding what those select few are, at which point we can decide on which we think are the best by buying them on the Steam Store.
Sgt.Psycho Oct 3, 2013 @ 10:14pm 
Nothing, as Gorlom said. They literally do what the goggles do.

How does voting work/affect progress?
Originally posted by TomB, Valve:
This is incorrect. The "No thanks / Not interested" button does not affect greenlight progress.
Emphasis author's
Source

Originally posted by TomB, Valve:
Down votes do not take away up votes. It's more like "Would you buy this game if it were on Steam? Yes/No"
Source

Originally posted by TomB, Valve:
Down votes do not nullify up votes.
Source
FireSlash confirms this
Last edited by Sgt.Psycho; Oct 3, 2013 @ 10:15pm
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Date Posted: Oct 3, 2013 @ 3:29pm
Posts: 10