Steam Greenlight

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Hyakujo Sep 26, 2013 @ 9:37pm
Greenlight & Early Access why all the Hate ?
Personally i love Greenlight and the Early Access system Steam have implemented. Been console gaming for a few years now and damn its getting stale same old games trotted out year after year with just a few updates absolutely zero innovation for the most part.

So many people buy an Early Access game and rage about it afterwards in the forumns why ? do they not understand the concept or are they paid by big industry names to make it look bad.

The whole concept is us the gamer getting the games we want made and small devs getting a shot at doing something they are passionate about.

Sure they certainly all won't be able to deliver the end result ok whats the alternative. Huge companies releasing the same game each year and charging full price for it along with season passes and tons of overpriced dlc.

I am happy to give relatively small amounts of money to help the little guys get a start in the industry and if a project goes awry so what. Of course none of us have ever bought a full retail release from a big publisher and found it full of bugs have we now.

Anyways rant over but can we just show a little love for the people that work their asses off without the benefit of big money backers who are just trying their best to bring us the games we the Steam community actually greenlit in the first place.
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Sgt.Psycho Sep 26, 2013 @ 10:18pm 
You bought a console and are complaining that releases are all the same? *hysterical laughter* Sorry.

Trying to sell an 'early access' = early alpha for $90 (more than full retail AAA!) gives me no reason to 'show a little love' at all.

I am actually taking part in multiple alpha tests. One of those is pre-purchase, the others, I am donating my time to help them make a better game. This is not inconsiderable, I estimate I have spent some 40+ hours testing, documenting, bug reporting, and forth. Per game. Unpaid.

IMHO, it is not cool to expect people to help you develop a game and pay money to do so as well. Alpha (and beta) testing used to be closed, a privilege for those trustworthy and willing enough to provide useful and valuable input, or hired to be. Now it seems to be a default fundraiser program with no quality control, and if the project flops, well too bad. Not their problem.

It also raises issues of games rushed to market without properly completing platform support, durability, bug-fixing and game balance issues. It's seems to me that there's 'good enough' mentality, slap a sticker on it, monetize it, and then move onto the next project to get to alpha asap, not worrying about supporting the poor suckers that bought the last one.
.!.oO=Boney-Dog-Lee=Oo.!. Sep 27, 2013 @ 3:41am 
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”


― Malcolm X
-Z- Sep 27, 2013 @ 5:03am 
Originally posted by Hyakujo:
do they not understand the concept
Yes.

[/thread]
Hyakujo Sep 27, 2013 @ 5:19am 
Yes i bought a console because despite loving PC gaming i reached a point when Oblivion came out and constantly crashed on my PC that i felt let down by not only the shoddy state of games being released full price but add to that having to make phone calls to activate some games the whole thing was just getting silly.

All i really wanted to do was pay my money and enjoy a game hassle free at that point in time.

I agree with the points you make that Greenlight and Early Access are open to exploit but taking a step back and looking at perhaps not having it at all i just think the future of gaming would be much worse.

Allowing gamers to have a say on what gets made and what does not has to be a good thing surely and for every disorganised or lazy team there will be one that works hard and delivers.

Gnomoria, Kerbal Space Program and Unepic are all excellant and gaming would be worse without them and without Greenlight and Early Access they wouldn't be on Steam.
Hyakujo Sep 27, 2013 @ 5:35am 
As a gamer i am passionate about games and its great to see gaming going back to its roots IMHO providing a way for the gamer to have a voice and giving those people with ideas a platform to make them become a reality in the age in which we live is just about the best damn thing Steam has ever done.
-Z- Sep 27, 2013 @ 7:48am 
"Planetary Annihilation," with the reasoning being that that was the kickstarter backing level required for alpha access, and that the price will drop as further levels of development occur. (It has since dropped when they entered what they call their Beta stage.)
-Z- Sep 27, 2013 @ 7:53am 
Comparitively, the next highest price in the Early Access program is $30, so once again we see people using a single title to describe the whole thing..
Last edited by -Z-; Sep 27, 2013 @ 7:54am
-Z- Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:07am 
The trouble, however, is that the argument provoked is typically irreconcilable. Those inclined to agree or are otherwise moved in favor of the statement will rarely see it otherwise, and those who recognize the statement for what it is will be disinclined to compromise their position precisely due to their having identified the statement as baring such folly.


So...as good as they might be for sparking an argument, it does nothing to allow for intelligent discussion. Personally, I've been trying to avoid getting into arguments. Snarky and sarcastic exchanges with thinly-veiled cyncism and a healthy helping of pedantry, on the other hand...
Godeke Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:16am 
Greenlight is a filter - those items that Greenlight's user show a lot of interest in are now in the eye of Steam's gatekeepers who can then make offers to bring those (portentially very narrowly niche) games to the market.

By being on Greenlight, you get to see all the garbage... the Greenlight users *are* the filter after all and are exposed to the full brunt of the adage "90% of everything is crap". The crap was always there, but on Greenlight you get to *see* in up close and personal (usually with a video to help hammer home the point of how bad of an idea something is).

However, what I consider crap might not be to someone else and vice versa. I have genres that I am willing to cut slack because they are the *type* of game I want to play. Otheres cut different levels of slack. Thus some of the games that get through are still "crap" to me, even though the went through two filters: the Greenlight process and the Steam gatekeepers.

Which brings us to the Early Access program: many of these games are *asperational* in nature. The developer has a promise for a specific type of game that a group is interested in and the promise alone of the genre getting a title is enough to draw some into the early access program. I consider it to be like Kickstarter in that there is no assurance that you will get a working product. Then again, I have bought published games that some were claiming were working products that in reality were worse than the early access projects.

If you understand the above, then Greenlight and Early Access should hold no terrors for you. If, on the other hand, you go into early access games expecting a polished product (a common laughable state of affairs) you will be spending a lot of time raging on the forums. If you run the Greenlight queue expecting nothing but Independent Gems of High Quality, your sorrow will probably drown your cat.

Expectations are everything.
C0untzer0 Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:17am 
This is a great place for voiding arguments. I rarely find anybody capable of forming one.
Hyakujo Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:39am 
Expectations are indeed everything and from reading a lot of forumn posts it seems many of us expect everyone to be out to con out of our hard earned cash. Fair enough it does happen all the time, we gamers are constantly milked for money by a variety of cynical business practices.

The thing is if we did not have Greenlight and Early Access then all that we would be left with are the very content providers that made us all so cynical in the first place.

If i buy something then i take some responsibility for my purchase and everything that goes with the resulting experience thus i fail to understand the venom in many of the posts i read.

-Z- Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:42am 
Originally posted by Hyakujo:
If i buy something then i take some responsibility for my purchase and everything that goes with the resulting experience thus i fail to understand the venom in many of the posts i read.
Mostly, it's because people can't seem to share that same sense of responsibility.
Tamerlane Sep 27, 2013 @ 8:57am 
people just love to complain. But the most important reason is that "gamers" feel so frikkin entitled these days. Prices are always "too high", releasing a game with a few bugs is enough for a lot of people to request a "full refund" (well request... more like demanding it on some random forum and making a big deal out of it).

Early Access is great but people either don't read, read bad or do read but still want a refund if this random pre-alpha game does not work as they want.

When a Kickstarter game releases post-launch DLC backers of the base game complain that they have to pay for the new content.

Greenlight releases a lot of good games, but some bad ones and those are enough for people to demand that Valve pulls the plug on the entire system.

Yet what happens at the end of the day? Everyone stays, they talk tough and loud, very loud, but in the end the barrier to step from hating on the Steam forums to actually stop using Steam is too much for just about anyone.
Hyakujo Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:11am 
Sure does seem to be a lot people who think Greenlight will fail. However i think its not a logical conclusion as it seems pretty obvious anyone who fails to deliver on a project won't get a welcome back anytime soon and those that do will develop a fanbase.

Hyakujo Sep 27, 2013 @ 9:43am 
Exactly my point could not have put it better myself
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Date Posted: Sep 26, 2013 @ 9:37pm
Posts: 16