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darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 6:29am
Leaving Greenlight, making game for some people, not everybody
Hi there,
I didn't really participate on forums I was too busy making game Altitude0.

My game had a Greenlight entry from the early beginnings but most of views came on day 1 a year ago (early entry). Since then it got buried in the pile of new games and very rarely some new person stumbled upon my game.
I feel it's pointless, I am not a promotor, I try to develop games, I don't have extra energy to publicize and connect. Real loner I guess.

Anyway, I will never win a popularity contest since my game is an airplane racing game, but I do appreciate everyone who supported us.

I will delete my game entry in a couple of days (this is not a last moment push), check it out before I do - it took way too much of my development time already :)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92950217&searchtext=altitude0

Regards,
DareM
Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
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Snaeng Aug 28, 2013 @ 6:52am 
You said it: you're developer, not a promoter. And where is your promoter? Developing a game is only one part of the deal. You need to promote your game! You need publicity! If the people don't know about your game, how could they even like it? Just creating a Greenlight entry and believing the people will find your game on their own is illusionary. Same with believing you're done with having a game developed.

I personally voted no, out of two reasons: First, I don't like plane games. ;-) Secondly, which I think is more important.. You added the tag Free to Play, but you don't mention anything about which parts of the game will actually cost money. This very easily leaves the impression of a Pay to Win game, and that is an absolute no for me. You should mention how you're actually gonna make money with this - pay to win? Pay for gimmicks like different looking planes (like League of Legends)?
Last edited by Snaeng; Aug 28, 2013 @ 6:57am
C0untzer0 Aug 28, 2013 @ 7:14am 
How much time did you put into that cow? More than you put into publicity?
darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 7:16am 
Thanks for your input.
About your second reason for a no vote. I get your point, certainly I never properly explained my idea. I hoped the game could grow an online user base that would play for free, while some people would pay for extra content and get more (freemium).
There wouldn't be better results for paying players only more tracks (it's a plane game).
I myself certainly hate the idea of Pay to Win.
darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 7:20am 
Originally posted by C0untzer0:
How much time did you put into that cow? More than you put into publicity?

Probably you are right, but it was fun :) We were hoping to promote the game in a funny way, doing what we can - not good at socializing - rather do animations - I guess.
darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 8:06am 
Originally posted by Mindwedge:
Originally posted by darem:
I will delete my game entry in a couple of days

It costs you nothing to leave it up. Why shut down even a small amount of exposure? I don't understand that.

Where can people get it? Say so on the page and leave it there. Have you looked at putting it on Amazon?[www.amazon.com] We sell way more there than on Desura.

Thank you for your tip. I will look into it, especially Amazon part.
Otherwise I am thinking of deleting the page just for my own sanity, I don't know that will help.
Last edited by darem; Aug 28, 2013 @ 8:07am
Qon Aug 28, 2013 @ 8:22am 
No one gets a lot of votes from people who go through all the greenlight entries because there's only a few people who do that. There's 2 simple things you need for a successful greenlight:
  • A somewhat updated GL page. Make an announcement every month and answer your commentators if you have the time. Upload a new video and screenshots if you have new graphics or features that you want to show. You don't have to do that often though. With this those who actually visit your page are more likely to upvote, but it will not give you more traffic. If you feel it takes a lot of your time: ask youtubers and your players who have uploaded videos of your game if you qan post their video to your GL page.
  • Get a youtube star, gaming blog or similar to feature your game. If the person/blog has a lot of traffic and they like it then you will get a quite big portion of their traffic to your GL page. You can get thousands or tens of thousands of views depending on how many or how well known the person(s) featuring your game is. Encourage your players to upload videos and email/PM the yt stars. Pick those who you think will like your game: those who plays and reviews games similar titles and those who are interested in indie titles. Ask your players if they know any channels that might fit your game so that you don't have to spend your time looking for them.
As long as your GL page is up you qan get votes. Try to get others to promote your game, it takes less of your time and they are experts at promotion.

I upvoted your game when you posted it to GL because you answered my questions in the qomments section, and I'm going to try the demo soon now that it is public. Don't give up :)
darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 8:43am 
Originally posted by Qon:
No one gets a lot of votes from people who go through all the greenlight entries because there's only a few people who do that. There's 2 simple things you need for a successful greenlight:
.........
As long as your GL page is up you qan get votes. Try to get others to promote your game, it takes less of your time and they are experts at promotion.

I upvoted your game when you posted it to GL because you answered my questions in the qomments section, and I'm going to try the demo soon now that it is public. Don't give up :)

Thanks Qon, I feel that we tried this stuff but somehow we will like we are falling into a ditch, a ditch between Indie group on one side (we got enough cold treatment there) and on the other side the high end group that has financial backing to promote themselves.

Probably we got more emails for advertising big budget style (Nascar, award events, whatever) than anything else, as if we have tons of money. It makes you feel ridiculous when you're struggling to survive.

I wonder I should restart GL campaign when game is fully done and packed - and not make same mistakes (as Snaeng said don't try to make it Free 2 Play on GL) again.
darem Aug 28, 2013 @ 9:40am 
@Mindwedge: Thanks for your valuable feedback. I got more support and feedback today than any time in any indie group recently. Except for players of my game, I love them most :)
darem Aug 29, 2013 @ 3:08am 
Originally posted by Mindwedge:
Like I said, you're in a new crowd now. Welcome to the new phase of your development efforts - those who did. We're a much smaller group, but we're much more dedicated (and not quite so busy yapping about it as we are too busy doing it).

On a side note, Valve just lit 100 titles as a "stress test" for the upcoming new system. If they can keep that up or even increase the throughput in coming months, your efforts here may pay off sooner than you expected. I think that's BIG!

BTW - disregard that 3% thing in the previous post - it just changed substantially.

Thank you for your updated information. Let's see how that 100 titles system works.
Otherwise, we still decided to pull off from GL, who knows where it goes next? But certainly we're not quitting our project. We made 'Dear John announcement' on our GL page.

See ya soon.
Last edited by darem; Aug 29, 2013 @ 3:09am
C0untzer0 Aug 29, 2013 @ 3:19am 
Good luck. It seems like a good quality game, just undermarketed. Maybe if you don't do publicity well you can find a partner who can. Make sure you keep doing what you feel right doing, it's almost impossible to sell something you don't believe in.
Sgt.Psycho Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:05am 
I actually think it's pretty good and should stay. Good engine, a kind of Flatout-style shlock humour, mechanics have been tweaked neatly with good physics, modes and score attack, even ultra-widescreen support. I didn't vote it as I'm not that inspired by racing games, and if I was, it would be for Wipeout or Rally genres.

As Mindwedge says, you lose absolutely nothing by leaving it here, and have everything to gain.

Note also that, controversial as it is, Greenlight allows relisting (there's been 3-4 this month alone) so if you have a major revision or new features to show off, that would be a good time to relist.

Edit: I some words
Last edited by Sgt.Psycho; Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:22am
darem Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:16am 
Originally posted by C0untzer0:
Good luck. It seems like a good quality game, just undermarketed. Maybe if you don't do publicity well you can find a partner who can. Make sure you keep doing what you feel right doing, it's almost impossible to sell something you don't believe in.

Thanks. We (both of us) certainly believe in our work a lot more than our promotional abilities.
darem Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:18am 
Originally posted by Sgt.Psycho:
I actually think it's pretty good and should stay. Good engine, a kind of Flatout-style shlock humour, mechanics have been tweaked neatly with good physics, modes and score attack, even ultra-widescreen support. I didn't vote it as I'm not that inspired by racing games, and I was, it would be Wipeout or Rally genres.

As Mindwedge says, you lose absolutely nothing by leaving it here, and have everything to gain.

Note also that, controversial as it is, Greenlight allows relisting (there's been 3-4 this month alone) so if you have a major revision or new features to show off, that would be a good time to relist.

Is relisting same as removing your project and then putting it back on GL later on as a new GL project? Anyway, thanks for your kind words.
Gorlom[Swe] Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:23am 
Originally posted by darem:
Is relisting same as removing your project and then putting it back on GL later on as a new GL project?
Yes.
Sgt.Psycho Aug 29, 2013 @ 5:26am 
...and what is with the video of Mocci? Is this some kind of unsubtle Greenlight reference?

Yes people, it is a real thing.[www.citikitty.com]

Edit later: Relisting will probably cost you $100 as Altitude0 was submitted during the free period of Greenlight's early days, right?

See http://steamcommunity.com/games/765/announcements/detail/1317556891741839763
Last edited by Sgt.Psycho; Aug 29, 2013 @ 6:04am
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Date Posted: Aug 28, 2013 @ 6:29am
Posts: 24