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Cluny Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:07pm

About trolls on Greenlight.

To the people at steam. Steam Greenlight is a very good thing. It’s way both to ensure that indi games onto steam that might not make other wise and a good way to let your customers choose what ends up at the store.

But there is a problem, not with the service’s but with the people who use it. People seem to get a huge malicious kick out of being as rude and snide as possible to the developers of the games put on Greenlight. They take great pleasure in saying that the game looks awful but do not give any constructive criticism. They might even be downright insulting to the devs or tell them to “Scrap the whole thing” (the game that is). The thing these trolls do most often is to announce they are “downvoting” the game(pressing “No/Not interested”) along with some condescending remark.

Now from what I’ve been told “No/Not interested” doesn’t actually count ageist the game’s chance of being greenlit , it just takes the game off your queue. So it doesn’t really work as a “downvote”.
But it seems most people haven’t heard. I feel they take a strong pleasure in ‘Denying the devs a chance to get onto Steam’, in spiting on their hopes and dreams.

These people seem to be focused entirely on the newer games as older games on Greenlight (popualar or otherwise) don’t receive this kind of treatment.

Something has to be done about it. As the “No” button doesn’t seem to have much use except as a weapon for trolls then maybe it should be got rid of. Games on Greenlight will still have to earn their place on steam and those deemed less-worthy will languish behind because they aren’t getting enough votes.

Or maybe there should be a system where devs can report trolls so they can stop them commenting on Greenlight submissions.

I’ve posted this here but I would like to send this to someone in management of Greenlight if
possible. I’m open to suggestions.

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Showing 1-15 of 92 comments

Spawn of Totoro Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:16pm

As you said, the no button doesn't do anything. They need so many votes to get green lit. As long as they can get those votes, it doesn't matter what the trolls think. The no button does not subtract from that number.

The system is working as intended.

The troll for them isn't the voting no, it is the announcing it. That way they get the reaction they want. These same trolls go and bad mouth games they don't even own, just for the reaction too.

In all honest, I have voted for over 500+ game. I only voted yes on 3 or 4 of them and am following only one. I just don't announce it for every game I vote no on.

Last edited by Spawn of Totoro; Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:17pm

Bitza1234 Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:49pm

I agree with the op regarding the issue of trolls, sadly it is a reflection of modern internet usage that there is an increase in the number (and maliciousness) of trolls for everything, as they seem to be able to hide behind their anonimity.In this case, I agree the no button should be removed. It won't stop the trolling, but it wold certainly tske away one 'tool' from their ammunittion. maybe if the 'no' button actually did downvoe, it could have been a lot more detrimental..

Thordred Mar 20, 2013 @ 10:55pm

Originally posted by Bitza1234:
In this case, I agree the no button should be removed. It won't stop the trolling, but it wold certainly tske away one 'tool' from their ammunittion.

We need a button to remove games from the queue if we don't want to browse through thousands of games to find new submissions. :D

Jawaka Mar 20, 2013 @ 11:29pm

Originally posted by jjmourby:
Now from what I’ve been told “No/Not interested” doesn’t actually count ageist the game’s chance of being greenlit , it just takes the game off your queue. So it doesn’t really work as a “downvote”.
But it seems most people haven’t heard. I feel they take a strong pleasure in ‘Denying the devs a chance to get onto Steam’, in spiting on their hopes and dreams.

Well then it seems as if the developers are getting the last laugh.

But anyways, if the comments break any Steam forums rules then just flag them and move on.

KillerKoala78 Mar 21, 2013 @ 6:00am

Originally posted by jjmourby:
They take great pleasure in saying that the game looks awful but do not give any constructive criticism.

Well I honestly can't blame them, there a ton of games that have graphics that looked recent back in the late '80s/early '90s. Some people just don't want outdated looking games in today's market. That's mostly why I avoid visiting the Greenlight page.

I've only went there to approve two games: Black Mesa and Leisure Suit Larry.

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 8:04am

So that gives them a right to be rude and abusive to people who put a lot of love work into their game? Yeah right. Nobody can force you to buy retro games, they aren’t going to hurt you, so there’s no point try to hurt the devs accept if you enjoy being an prick.

Someone once said 'Playing a game for the graphics is like watching porn for the story' missing the point entirely.

Also when I say 'They take great pleasure in saying that the game looks awful' I'm not just talking about the graphics. They'll go after a game even if the graphics are nice.

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 8:09am

Originally posted by Jawaka:
Originally posted by jjmourby:

Well then it seems as if the developers are getting the last laugh.

But anyways, if the comments break any Steam forums rules then just flag them and move on.

There doesn't seem to be a function to flag comments on Greenlight. Are you suggesting I flag their accounts?

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 8:11am

Originally posted by Thordred:
We need a button to remove games from the queue if we don't want to browse through thousands of games to find new submissions. :D

Maybe then it should just be called the "Remove for queue button'.

wilco64256 Mar 21, 2013 @ 9:15am

Originally posted by jjmourby:
There doesn't seem to be a function to flag comments on Greenlight. Are you suggesting I flag their accounts?

Yes. If someone is breaking the rules in the comments then report such on their account.

Thordred Mar 21, 2013 @ 9:50am

Originally posted by jjmourby:
Originally posted by Thordred:
We need a button to remove games from the queue if we don't want to browse through thousands of games to find new submissions. :D

Maybe then it should just be called the "Remove for queue button'.

Maybe that's a good idea. Not because of troll posts, trolls will be trolls no matter what.
But I think the "No" button prevents some users from using Greenlight. I read many times that users didn't press "No" because they don't want to disrespectful towards the developers and wouldn't mind if it were sold on Steam, the game just isn't their cup of tea.
These users end up with incredibly long queues that render Greenlight useless. Or in the best case make it very inconvenient to use.
On the other hand... maybe it's their own fault. Greenlight is self-explanatory as it is.

#10

jeslyck Mar 21, 2013 @ 9:52am

I'm not even sure you can classified them as Trolls, they're just stupid insignificant silly insects. In other words, they are the flies that want to fly into your ear each in summer.

#11

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 10:11am

Originally posted by jeslyck:
I'm not even sure you can classified them as Trolls, they're just stupid insignificant silly insects. In other words, they are the flies that want to fly into your ear each in summer.

I don't follow. They seem to fit the profile of, saying nasty things hoping for a reaction.
Also I maybe I'm being too litereal here but I don't get the paralel with Flies. They don't seem to have a set season for trolling.

#12

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 12:30pm

Originally posted by Mindwedge:
Well JJ, it sounds like you posted a game recently (though I see no association to one on your profile). Maybe this is why you're surprised about the behavior of some?.
Don't waste Valve's time with reporting on things you can control yourself. They're not going to close someone's account for voicing an opinion, no matter how rude it seems.

On behalf of every dev here who has had to deal with insults I'd like to welcome you to the 'system'. Enjoy your stay!

Not quite. I am new to Greenlight but only as a voter. I am surprised by the behavior of my fellow voters but more by the sheer scale of it. I believe I have seen one person take their submistion down from Greenlight due to trolling and I find idea that horrifing.

Even though I'm not a dev your concern and reason is good to see. Thanks anyway.

Originally posted by Mindwedge:
You have the impression that games posted a while back don't see this "trolling" but that would be incorrect

Like I said I I'm sorta new. I've voted yes for 22 submissions and of all of those most the trolling they got was at the start of their life. But maybe I just hit a bunch of exceptions

Last edited by Cluny; Mar 21, 2013 @ 12:33pm

#13

Gorlom[Swe] Mar 21, 2013 @ 3:47pm

Originally posted by jjmourby:
So that gives them a right to be rude and abusive to people who put a lot of love work into their game? Yeah right. Nobody can force you to buy retro games, they aren’t going to hurt you, so there’s no point try to hurt the devs accept if you enjoy being an prick.

Also when I say 'They take great pleasure in saying that the game looks awful' I'm not just talking about the graphics. They'll go after a game even if the graphics are nice.

You know the devs (or guy/girl that submitted the project to greenlight) can delete offensive comments right?

What about the other side of the coin? What about the troll submissions? There is one guy that has submitted 3-4 projects (2 of them has been taken down by him), all concept stage projects with videos that show nothing and use other peoples copyrighted material and "screenshots" that show nothing and are most likely stolen as well.

If someone finds that person out and calls him/her on it should he/she as a troll have the means to punish people that notice this?

Someone once said 'Playing a game for the graphics is like watching porn for the story' missing the point entirely.

I don't know the context but somehow it seems you missed the point. This guy is saying that graphics doesn't matter, which seems highly relevant to the comments the people you consider trolls make. In his opinion their trolling is edgeless and he is trying to declaw the trolls by telling them so. (effectivly trying to do something similar to "removing the no button")

Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Mar 21, 2013 @ 3:53pm

#14

Cluny Mar 21, 2013 @ 4:00pm

Originally posted by GorlomSwe:
You know the devs (or guy/girl that submitted the project to greenlight) can delete offensive comments right?

So the fact that the devs can delete posts means people can be as rude as they like?
Well as far as I've seen they never get round to deleting old posts so the fact they can hardly matters.

Originally posted by GorlomSwe:

What about the other side of the coin? What about the troll submissions? There is one guy that has submitted 3-4 projects (2 of them has been taken down by him), all concept stage projects with videos that show nothing and use other peoples copyrighted material and "screenshots" that show nothing and are most likely stolen as well.

If someone finds that person out and calls him/her on it should he/she as a troll have the means to punish people that notice this?

Can't say I've noticed that. And so what. Any troll submiters are wasting their money on something that can't (or shouldn't) actually upset anyone, not great trolling.

I don't see how removing or renaming the 'No' button would give a troll submiter power.

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Date Posted: Mar 20, 2013 @ 6:07pm

Posts: 92

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