Steam Greenlight

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FuKuy Apr 18, 2013 @ 8:50am
Ideas to improve Greenlight
Greenlight should be more transparent:

1.- Establish a minimum number of votes to be on STEAM Store. If a game gets those 'x' votes should be approved immediately.

2.- VALVe should keep looking to Greenlight catalog. It's very good to let the community talk and vote, BUT if someone at VALVe thinks 'x' game is worth to be on STEAM they should directly contant the developer.

3.- Succeed games with 'x' sales on other platforms should be added to STEAM through direct process with VALVe.

4.- Successful Kickstarter/IndieGoGo games should be approved automatically as IGF winners did.

5.- Increase frequency of Greenlit games. Each month the top 20 games should be approved.

6.- Create different categories for games that are months beyond to release and games finished and ready to publish.

7.- Developers who have previously published games on STEAM Store shouldn't be on Greenlight anymore.

8.- Games with STEAMworks support should have been a priority for VALVe to look into their internal approval process.
Last edited by FuKuy; Apr 18, 2013 @ 9:01am
Showing 1-15 of 44 comments
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Skoardy Apr 18, 2013 @ 8:56am 
4. Start $10 Kickstarter. Achieve Kickstarter. (Stephen Colbert grabby-hand) Place on Steam, please!
FuKuy Apr 18, 2013 @ 9:00am 
Originally posted by Skoardy:
4. Start $10 Kickstarter. Achieve Kickstarter. (Stephen Colbert grabby-hand) Place on Steam, please!

Fair enough. Then setup a minimum bar of backers or money... easy as that.
Skoardy Apr 18, 2013 @ 9:57am 
Originally posted by FuKuy:
Fair enough. Then setup a minimum bar of backers or money... easy as that.
Not all Kickstarters are equal. Some people don't need thousands of dollars/backers. Wouldn't you just be swapping one popularity contest (Greenlight) for another (Kickstarter) - albeit one with a more abstract goal depending on the project.
AIMonster Apr 18, 2013 @ 10:04am 
1. No, because this number would need to be constantly changed. I see a lot of problems with making it a static number, and companies trying to push out their game on Greenlight will constantly be posting exactly how many more votes they need to get through to Greenlight.

2. Maybe, I think they are using Greenlight to help alleviate having to go through and play and decide on the large number of submissions Steam receives daily in the first place.

3. Maybe, just because it sells well somewhere else doesn't mean it will sell well on Steam. I think indie platformers and high concept sandbox games tend to do better on Desura for example.

4. No, crowdfunding success already tends to generate a lot of hits and trends a game up on Greenlight anyway. Just because it's successful on Kickstarter doesn't mean the game is going to sell well.

5. I like the idea of increasing the frequency. I'd say that right now too few games are getting Greenlit compared to how many are being submitted monthly.

6. I agree, I would like to have an idea of a developer's proposed release date and the current state of the game. It would be nice if it was a searchable category. Obviously games that are years away from being released shouldn't be as high priority to be Greenlit as a game just waiting to implement the Steam API to release on Steam and we should have that info as consumers to influence our voting.

7. Well, I agree to an extent as long as their previous games generated enough sales on Steam previously. I find it odd developers with games that have already been on Steam are forced to go through the Greenlight process while other developers seem to get to pass right through it all.

8. You can't implement Steamworks until the game has been approved. Do you mean games that are proposing they'll have Steamworks support? If so I see no reason they should have priority otherwise every developer who wants to be on Steam will find reason to put Steamworks into their games.
bvguthrie Apr 18, 2013 @ 11:42am 
Some of these suggested tweaks could be helpful, but Valve really needs to decide what they want, and let us know (hopefully, they are preparing to do that). If their main goal is to solve the staffing problem they had before, where they were drowning in game submissions, they can dump Greenlight, keep the submission fee (perhaps even raise it), require games to be finished before they are submitted, and so forth. I am beginning to get tired of sorting through games that are almost all terrible, voting on what I want, and not seeing it get approved.
If they actually care about crowdsourcing, not just free labor, they can approve more games, give incentives for users to vote on large numbers of games (items, Steam wallet funds), and so forth. Obviously, they would have to put in safeguards to prevent mindless votes--maybe requiring a comment on each game. Making crowdsourcing really work would also require a much better search feature to prevent games like Cognition from getting lost due to submitting in the initial rush, or any future rush that might happen.
Steam's search feature has always been terrible, so they would need to do a lot of work on that--more sorting options, like the above-mentioned release date, exclusion as well as inclusion of multiple categories, more genre options, and so forth.
theoneumann Apr 18, 2013 @ 3:14pm 
I dislike point 4, and the whole notion behind it.

Basically I ♥♥♥♥ing hate Kickstarters. I think they should have absolutely no bearing on whether a game is GL or not. Indeed in this round, a few of the games were put forward primarily for that reason, such as Shovel Knight - problem being, that kickstarter was completely unrelated to Steam - it was for releasing the game on Nintendo consoles, and with extra features for all.

I salute indie developers who put up their own money, work two jobs or,best of all, use funds from other successful projects and get the game made. We should be saluting that kind of behaviour - not penalizing them because they can't get statistics of 90,000 backers or something.

Oh, and one more thing, ♥♥♥♥ spiking. It means ♥♥♥♥ all. If a game is top 5, or top 10 consistently, that means it has at some point it has spiked, right? According to what we've heard though, it means that interest in the game has stagnated. Sure. That's like saying a football team that finishes 3rd in the league is weaker then a team that goes from 15th to 7th in the last few weeks of the season.

Really disappointed with the braindead ideology behind Greenlight atm.
jeslyck Apr 18, 2013 @ 5:13pm 
1. No then all titles will sooner or later get into Steam.

2.. They probably also do

3. yes (if they want)

4. There is no guarantee that there will be a good game, or that there will be a game at all

5.quality over quantity

6.people would just (more) vote on finished products

7.So no QA?

8. That's no guarantee it's good ..ok
Delph Apr 19, 2013 @ 12:36am 
Originally posted by theoneumann:
Thats not quite the right analogy for spiking and greenlighting games with a decent trajectory. A better football analogy would be where team A plays the whole season and ends up third. Meanwhile halfway through the season, team B joins and does awesome but only gets to say 10th because there are no longer as many games anOh, and one more thing, ♥♥♥♥ spiking. It means ♥♥♥♥ all. If a game is top 5, or top 10 consistently, that means it has at some point it has spiked, right? According to what we've heard though, it means that interest in the game has stagnated. Sure. That's like saying a football team that finishes 3rd in the league is weaker then a team that goes from 15th to 7th in the last few weeks of the season. [/quote]

Thats not quite the right analogy for spiking and greenlighting games with a decent trajectory. A better football analogy would be where team A plays the whole season and ends up third. Meanwhile halfway through the season, team B joins and does awesome but only gets to say 10th because there are no longer as many games and they can't catch up. However they might be a better team and if they had been present at the start of the season tteam B would likely have more points than team A.

Also the audience was much larger for greenlight in the beginning as it was new and exciting - votes gathered in the first month or two of greenlight are unlikely to count for as much purely because it disadvantages new games that are submitted onto greenlight
theoneumann Apr 19, 2013 @ 4:20am 
But that's going along with Valve's attitude of saying that a game that spikes might be a better choice then one that has been consistently top 10, which I think it's total rubbish. The team that finishes 10th when it runs out of games doesn't make Champions League - the team that is 3rd comes the end, does. Football is a results and placement business, and for me I see no reason why GL can't make the same approach. You simply have to reward those that are consistently at the upper echelons of people's wishes.

Damn if you firmly believe in spiking, then why not just wait a little longer to see how genuine the spike is? Look at Agarest. Ok, so it jumps up to 49 in a short space of time. What does that honestly mean? It makes an impact but there are still at the end of the day 48 games that people want more. So why not wait another round to see if it jumps any higher? Why punish a game that has been top 30 consistently for a game that has only been on GL for 5 minutes? If Agarest was looked at next time as a game that has gone from 49 in phase 1 to top 20 in phase 2, then I'm sure none of us would have a problem with that game earning GL on merit.
Last edited by theoneumann; Apr 19, 2013 @ 4:20am
AIMonster Apr 19, 2013 @ 8:21am 
I honestly think Agarest would have made it to the top 10 mostly because JRPG seems to be a wanted genre that is sorely lacking on Steam, but I also don't like the idea of accepting games based on trends too. I don't want to give examples of specific games, but a lot of games seem to get trended based on the following:

1. A game starts with a large fanbase already and thus voters tend to be informed when it's on Greenlight and upvote it. Youtube videos or just basing it on a popular IP of sort for example. I personally don't think these games have a good indication of how many copies they will sell should they release, especially over time. On the other hand if a game is relatively unknown the developers are forced to rely on only voters who use Greenlight (and usually frequently) rather than just telling their fans to go to Greenlight and upvote their game.
2. Kickstarter is run simulatenously with Greenlight, bringing whoever is running the Kickstarter a quick advert to Greenlight since just about anyone (and maybe even a few who won't) who kickstarts the game is going to want it to succeed on Steam too.
3. It's hard for games at the start of Greenlight to maintain a high rate of votes and even harder for them to trend again. Most of the people who tend to vote through Greenlight on that particular game have voted for it already, and a lot of new voters might just vote on games that are newer to Greenlight rather than worry about older games in their queue.

I also don't see anything wrong with products that are on later stages of development or closer to finished getting more votes. Again, I personally don't think Greenlight should ever be treated like Kickstarter where "concepts" and early alphas are posted rather than products near completion and finished, yet that's the case with a lot of games unfortunately, I'd rather vote on games that are closer to release (within 1 year) and I have a better idea of the finished product that's why I think it's a bit absurd that games that are 2+ years away from being complete (some of which aren't even using the early access program) are getting Greenlit before games that are release ready.
0m4rWuzH33r Apr 19, 2013 @ 6:01pm 
They should remove the concepts section. That way, nobody will steal peoples' games.
Skoardy Apr 19, 2013 @ 6:05pm 
Well, anyone worried about having their amazeballs zombie game concept stolen could always just not submit it to Concepts.
Last edited by Skoardy; Apr 19, 2013 @ 6:06pm
Gorlom[Swe] Apr 19, 2013 @ 10:10pm 
Originally posted by 0m4rWuzH33r:
They should remove the concepts section. That way, nobody will steal peoples' games.
Noone is stealing anything in the concept section. There are fraudulent submissions (probably because of misunderstandings how greenlight works) but nothing is stolen just because it is submitted there.
Games submitted in the concept section has no chance to be greenlit unless they are submitted to greenlight proper that requires a fee.
Besides if the concept section was removed the fraudulent submissions would probably migrate to greenlight proper.
Evil Puppy Cat Apr 23, 2013 @ 2:29pm 
We need a "no" that is less "I personally am not interested" and more "keep this game off of Steam".
jeslyck Apr 23, 2013 @ 3:13pm 
Originally posted by Sheckley the Unkillable:
We need a "no" that is less "I personally am not interested" and more "keep this game off of Steam".

Hehe no you have to settle for decisions concerning what YOU! want, you should not vote for me Valv or others
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Date Posted: Apr 18, 2013 @ 8:50am
Posts: 44