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Primus Palus Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:25am
Do You Have Greenlight Voting Standards?
Now the word is, Greenlight will be going away in the future here. Let's assume it doesn't and let's hear some honest feedback and responses. Do you have a standard that helps you pick what games to vote Yes vs No on?

I ask when viewing a game EVERY time... "What does this bring that's new and exciting to the industry". More often than not, I tell myself based on what I see, "Nothing".

If it doesn't show me something solid and quickly, I have to downvote it. I can't in good conscience assist in getting a game into Steam, clogging up the store, and have it be complete nonsense.

Of the 500+ games I've voted on... I probably haven't upvoted more games than I have fingers.

I tend to view the videos, look at the screenshots and read the descriptions. If they have a website I take that into account as well and come to an informed decision. But it's a decision I make in minutes.

If they are seeking funding for the game, I'll visit their IndieGoGo or Kickstarter page and see what else they haven't mentioned. I will NEVER vote because the developer says the voting is going well, or the crowdfunding is near completion. It boils down to what the game offers ME and the industry in my opinion.

What are your standards?
Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
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wilco64256 Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:27am 
My standard is just to answer the question that I'm presented with. It's pretty simple and straightforward, and doesn't overcomplicate anything.
Primus Palus Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:31am 
Originally posted by wilco64256:
My standard is just to answer the question that I'm presented with. It's pretty simple and straightforward, and doesn't overcomplicate anything.

I have 184 games on Steam. I can buy more if I so choose... but I think that's such a horrible approach to the voting on Steams part. They know that people who click Yes, probably wont buy it. Not saying the majority wont... but there's a solid chunk of people that click yes with no intention on buying it.

I'd rather that question be something like, "Should this game be released on Steam" or "Does this game seem to present itself well". Not, "Would you buy this". It's one thing to truly want to buy it and then do... versus giving an Indie developer a shot because what they have in front of you looks promising, but you still might not buy it.
C0untzer0 Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:39am 
Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:

I'd rather that question be something like, "Should this game be released on Steam"
Why, if you want to buy it, that would be an implicit reason, otherwise, it doesn't need to be available.

Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
"Does this game seem to present itself well".
That's beside the point. The idea of Greenlight is to select games to sell. Hence the asking if people would buy it.



Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
It's one thing to truly want to buy it and then do...
It's the only thing. Steam is a sales outlet, not an ego massage parlour.


Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
versus giving an Indie developer a shot because what they have in front of you looks promising, but you still might not buy it.
Isn't that just a cruel form of teasing the poor guy? "Hey, we're going to release your game to millions of potential customers, but none of them actually want to buy your game, they just pity you."
Last edited by C0untzer0; Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:20am
Skoardy Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:45am 
Originally posted by wilco64256:
My standard is just to answer the question that I'm presented with. It's pretty simple and straightforward, and doesn't overcomplicate anything.
This, because it's what is asked.

Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
I have 184 games on Steam. I can buy more if I so choose... but I think that's such a horrible approach to the voting on Steams part. They know that people who click Yes, probably wont buy it. Not saying the majority wont... but there's a solid chunk of people that click yes with no intention on buying it.
And yet the information is a lot more useful tham your suggestion which doesn't indicate one way or another whether the game could generate sales - just that the person voting fancies themselves as a trendsetter/analyst for the PC game industry. Pretty useless really.
wilco64256 Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:55am 
The ONLY thing that matters to Valve, and the ONLY thing that matters to developers, is how many people are interested in buying a product. Even if some of those people who say yes don't actually mean it, there is no better measure to take into account. It's totally useless to ask people if they think something looks nice or if they think it should be for sale in a certain place. There are plenty of things that present themselves well, but I wouldn't ever personally buy them, and so the creators gain absolutely nothing from my opinion. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters even the tiniest bit is what people will actually do with their money.
C0untzer0 Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:14am 
But Wilco, speaking as a greenlit developer yourself you have to admit that the vague knowledge that "somebody sort of approved of your pitch but not in a way to spare you the cost of a sandwich" is much more important than all of that "being able to pay staff/bills/etc" that the voting question implies, right? Wouldn't you love to be able to tell everybody working on your project "I'm sorry, I can't pay any of you, but some folks thought we were 'well presented'"?
Last edited by C0untzer0; Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:20am
wilco64256 Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:21am 
Oh we would definitely much rather know what people thought of how pretty our page was than actually have them spend money on our product. Our staff would all be perfectly happy to be homeless but know that we presented ourselves nicely :P
Primus Palus Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:37am 
I don't think we can confuse ourselves with Greenlight = Sales. Greenlight only gets it to the masses. They still have to make the purchase. So just because something is approved, doesn't mean it can't fail.

I don't think Greenlight is supposed to garner sales in the above equation. I think they're looking for interest to show that people might want it if it were to come out. But again, just approval alone and a bunch of votes where your only choice is, "I would buy it", "I wouldn't buy it"... is pretty slim.

I look at Greenlight as a means of showing Steam and more importantly the community... the potential of the product and to be on the lookout for it. I don't look at Greenlight as I will or I will not buy this. If Steam is considering that upvotes equals sales... then I can see why it's now going away.

So to me, I go beyond the simple question that means NOTHING... and ask if this would better the industry and Steam. If my vote was that one that decided if a garbage game came to Steam or didn't... I'd want to know I participated in that regard.

Maybe my thought process is off. Maybe there are just shambling masses of zombies (Steam users)... that see something, hit "Yes" and will buy it. I'd like to think humanity isn't lost. I'd like to think people use their brains here and developers aren't just going for the quick buck.
Last edited by Primus Palus; Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:39am
wilco64256 Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:43am 
Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
I don't look at Greenlight as I will or I will not buy this.

Then you're completely misunderstanding the system and using it incorrectly. Valve wouldn't be phrasing the question in that way if they weren't interested in the answer. They're aware that some people will try to make it more complex than it needs to be, but also hoping that most people will just honestly answer the question. They really don't care how nice some people might think a project looks. Valve is not a charity. They want to see potential for profits, so while some people make it an unnecessarily complicated process, there are enough others who use the system as intended to make it effective.
C0untzer0 Feb 17, 2014 @ 9:52am 
But hey, tell us more about how your solution to people not seriously answering the question asked is to answer a question seriously not asked, I could use a laugh.
coruun Feb 17, 2014 @ 10:15am 
Coming back to the OP's question from a customers pov:

My first look goes towards the tags. Some tags, like horror, casual or point-and-click get almost always an instant downvote, except something catches my eyes. F2P is a no-go for me (in fact, you can't buy a F2P). Also multiplayer-only games will have a hard time because their playability depends on the other players...

Then I look at the images to find something that pleases me. If the presentation is acceptable I'll watch the video and read the description.

In the end the game get's an upvote, if I want to play this, or I own it from a bundle ;)

Out of my ~900 voted games I have ~150 upvoted.
Skoardy Feb 17, 2014 @ 11:02am 
Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
So to me, I go beyond the simple question that means NOTHING...
If 'nothing' is how you see the value of answering the question asked, hopefully one day you'll be aware that your 'beyond' way of thinking provides less than nothing of value.

It is dismaying that in setting yourself above the small matter of developers being able to support themselves financially, you're actively doing them a disservice.
Gorlom[Swe] Feb 17, 2014 @ 12:00pm 
Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
Originally posted by wilco64256:
My standard is just to answer the question that I'm presented with. It's pretty simple and straightforward, and doesn't overcomplicate anything.

I have 184 games on Steam. I can buy more if I so choose... but I think that's such a horrible approach to the voting on Steams part. They know that people who click Yes, probably wont buy it. Not saying the majority wont... but there's a solid chunk of people that click yes with no intention on buying it.

I'd rather that question be something like, "Should this game be released on Steam" or "Does this game seem to present itself well". Not, "Would you buy this". It's one thing to truly want to buy it and then do... versus giving an Indie developer a shot because what they have in front of you looks promising, but you still might not buy it.
... How would those questions in any way reduce the number of people that blindly press the yes button? if anything that would increase the number of people that just arbitrarily press yes, possibly because they don't want to be standing in the way of the games chances or they feel sorry for the dev that spent all that time on it or those that assume other people would like it even if they wouldn't.

I find your questions to be vaguer and way worse for their intended purpose.


Originally posted by coruun:
(in fact, you can't buy a F2P).
That is why the question for Free-to-play games are different. For the F2P games the question is "would you play this " or some such.




Originally posted by Skoardy:
Originally posted by 24th J. Shields:
So to me, I go beyond the simple question that means NOTHING...
If 'nothing' is how you see the value of answering the question asked, hopefully one day you'll be aware that your 'beyond' way of thinking provides less than nothing of value.

It is dismaying that in setting yourself above the small matter of developers being able to support themselves financially, you're actively doing them a disservice.
I think he is stuck on the notion that he is either helping or preventing games to appear on Steam. A mild case of meglomania?

@24th J. Shields: Your "job" as a steam user visiting greenlight and answering the question is not to decide for Valve which game to select, but giving them correct data to base their decisions on.
Last edited by Gorlom[Swe]; Feb 17, 2014 @ 12:12pm
coruun Feb 17, 2014 @ 12:07pm 
You are right. I missed this.
Cheeseburger of Doom Feb 17, 2014 @ 10:51pm 
As much as I like the 'idea' behind greenlight...frankly a good 95% of the games I see, I would buy on an Atari 2600...these are not games I want, or would have ANY plan on buying on Steam. Frankly, I'd rather see these indie developers put in a little more effort than sub standard 8 bit graphics :P
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Date Posted: Feb 17, 2014 @ 8:25am
Posts: 19