Atheist Libertarian Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:45am
Defeat walling with portals
In TF2 for example, take any existing map and divide it into blocks, so that each block contains no corners, and reposition them at random. The walls of the repositioned blocks that appear to connect in open space would function similar to portals in that everything would pass between them seamlessly, even though they aren't directly connected. The map can always be divided the same way but if the blocks are repositioned differently every time the server loads the map, you'd never get used to it.

The map will appear normal as long as you can't see through the walls. Otherwise, it will be confusing, like one of those paintings with staircases going upside down and backwards. As you move around, passing between the different blocks, your orientation and angle of view beyond the walls keeps shifting. You will even see other players in more than one place at a time and often 'ghosting' through the player environment.
Last edited by Atheist Libertarian; Sep 16, 2012 @ 8:57am
Satoru Sep 10, 2012 @ 6:52am
Non euclidean geometry doesn't solve this problem. Also portal and portal2 had to do a lot of 'hacking' to get the portals to look right which in an enclosed single player single point of view context is fine, but doesn't fly in the face of multiple players with multiple viewpoints.
.elias #eustars Sep 10, 2012 @ 1:07pm
After i red this,I was like "Okay,it seems that 150 > IQ doesnt mean anything when it comes to someone,trying to solve material wallhacking using euclidean geometry"
Atheist Libertarian Sep 11, 2012 @ 9:15am
Originally posted by Satoru:
Non euclidean geometry doesn't solve this problem. Also portal and portal2 had to do a lot of 'hacking' to get the portals to look right which in an enclosed single player single point of view context is fine, but doesn't fly in the face of multiple players with multiple viewpoints.

It wouldn't require any 'hacking' since the connecting walls between the blocks would never face each other. An while it won't eliminate walling, it would be very confusing, like one of those paintings with staircases going upside down and backwards. If the blocks of a map are repositioned differently every time the map is loaded by the server, you'd never get used to it.
Satoru Sep 11, 2012 @ 1:55pm
When I say hacking I mean that they used a lot of visual tricks in order to give the 'illusion' of portals as well as levels being static. This is fine if you're doing one person in a fixed level. But scale that out to more people, and the issue of having to do predictive analysis of assets (bullets, movement, etc) and you can see how even going beyond 3 'squares' would be incredibly confusing to code for.
Tito Shivan Sep 11, 2012 @ 2:02pm
all that process x 24 or 32 players... Server load would go nuts.
JC vynn Sep 11, 2012 @ 5:19pm
this makes my brain hurt, there would be no predictive anylisis, no extra server load, tracking would be simple, when object enters one of the transistions its trajectory and velocity are just changed to match the exit of the transistion.
computers can easily handle the math to translate velocities, angles, etc between two points like this, otherwise how else do objects in portal maintain their speed and velocity? and they do it in multiplayer as well. So if we had giant portals connection the blocks that are twisted relative to eachother it would have no issues with keeping track of the assets.

In portal 2 there may be some rendering lag between portals, but that would not be the case most likely as it would not have to render stuff like a portal entrance/exit facing eachother or being adjacent. particle effects may not register correctly as well as some other stuff like the laser on sentries, but clever design of maps can fix this.

http://www.imgbox.de/show/img/ahKu3fTzv4.png simple, but may help you get a visual of the concept.
Atheist Libertarian Sep 11, 2012 @ 11:52pm
Excellent illustration, Jared. That's the 2D equivalent of what I'm thinking.
[CGA]HD-GUN^^! Sep 12, 2012 @ 12:04am
In quake we were able to shoot rockets etc through the warps...the warp from one place to another across the map was alot like the OP was saying (cod is based on quake btw).
and we had multiplayer processing. in some custom maps like rocket arena we used a warp to get from one arena to another. The engine isnt being used to its fullest.
after viewing illustration... I say that was how some of the effects of being in a hi-rise were created but in reality all the "floors" were on the same level the stairs were a trick using the the warp from "room" to "room".
Atheist Libertarian Sep 13, 2012 @ 7:33pm
Originally posted by Tito Shivan:
all that process x 24 or 32 players... Server load would go nuts.

It's all graphics which is processed entirely on each player's personal graphics card.
Atheist Libertarian Sep 16, 2012 @ 8:19am
Originally posted by Satoru:
When I say hacking I mean that they used a lot of visual tricks in order to give the 'illusion' of portals as well as levels being static. This is fine if you're doing one person in a fixed level. But scale that out to more people, and the issue of having to do predictive analysis of assets (bullets, movement, etc) and you can see how even going beyond 3 'squares' would be incredibly confusing to code for.

It's not confusing at all. The visual tricks used in Portal are not necessary in this case because no two connecting walls will ever face each other within the player environment. The server would only need to provide the client with a few KB of additional data about how it has reoriented the blocks of a map. The rest of the code would apply to the client-side graphics and would involve coordinate transformations which are very fast. But I've seen similar effects used before in the multiplayer part of single player games like Unreal, Quake 3, and Serious Sam.