umadbro? Mar 30, 2013 @ 11:56pm
VAC bans should be removed by purchasing another license
As most of you here know, when you're VAC (Valve Anti Cheat) banned from a game in Steam, it's pretty much there for good. There is also no negotiation. This is in place to deter cheaters by essentially setting a "no tolerance, no forgiveness" policy for cheating. It certainly has its virtues. Many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people play games like Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead, so it's very important to keep the community clean of those that would grief others.

But I think there's another side of the coin as well - people that cheated a long time ago and have completely changed their ways. I'm one of them.

Literally something like 6-7 years ago I was just another skill-less teenage foff that had to cheat on Counter-strike to get kills. It was cool, I could see people through walls, kill them as they came around the corner, pretend nothing was going on, and bask in my glorious K/D. I would use the AWP along with an aimbot to aim slightly below the head to insta-kill anyone I see without appearing too suspicious (since many legitimately good players can actually do as such). So been there done that. I was later rightfully banned by VAC from all Source games.

Fast forward to now, I play Battlefield: Bad Company 2 MP, Dawn of War 2 MP, various MMOs, and even Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead among others (on another account). I play them all fairly well, enjoy myself, and do so without cheating. I also sincerely have no intention of ever using a cheat online again, since to me it would be like personally insulting myself, succumbing to the notion that it's impossible to improve my own skill or knowledge.

The one annoyance I have with using Steam right now is I have to maintain two accounts. One is for most of the games I get off of Steam sales, the other is for just multiplayer Source games (the not banned one obviously). It would be great if I could just play the games on my original account again by having the VAC bans removed through purchasing another license of the game in which I'm banned in.

But won't that increase cheating? Well here's the thing, as I mentioned above I already have a separate account where I can purchase and play such games that I was originally banned from years ago, and I play them now without cheating. The only difference between my proposal and the system that already exists is cutting out one step - the creation of another account.

Current system if VAC banned:

1) Create another account
2) Purchase games again

My proposed system if VAC banned

1) Purchase games again

If there happened to be a well-endowed cheater that would just continually buy new licenses to cheat and grief people as soon as he got banned, such a system is already in place and they would already be doing so by simply creating new accounts and buying the games again (not to mention, such people are probably in the extreme minority).

There may also be the criticism that new accounts actually help deter cheating further by wiping achievements and stats as a corollary - simple, just wipe achievements and stats for the affected games if cheating is detected but still allow the ban to be removed by the purchase of another license so that they can earn them again.

I believe that Steam should allow players to have a remission of their VAC ban through a purchase of another license of the affected game. The current system already allows chronic cheaters to simply create another account and buy another license, so my proposed system doesn't enable more cheating, it just cuts out an unnecessary middle step so that players who have legitimately changed their ways can enjoy their games the way they want them to be enjoyed again.
Showing 1-15 of 72 comments
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OverlordTomala Mar 31, 2013 @ 1:06am 
It's good that you don't cheat anymore. But as often as sales happen it would be too easy for people to snag copies just to cheat again. I've often heard from people that would buy 4 packs of Source games just to have 4 different attempts to cheat.

Let them make a new account if they want to start fresh. If they're going to cheat at least make them work for it.
Tito Shivan Mar 31, 2013 @ 4:13am 
VAC system is fine as it is. You can already 'override' your ban by purchasing other license, on a new account.

Making VAC Bans come and go would make the system unreliable from a user's perspective, since i wouldn't be sure if the person i'm playing with was a cheater that 'paid the fine' or has kept his profile clean so far.
It would be (sort of) like letting people pay to erase their criminal records.
Spawn of Totoro Mar 31, 2013 @ 6:34am 
If you are going to cheat, then you will bare the badge of a cheater. That is part of the punishment. If they allowed you to buy a new license and remove the VAC ban status, then people will say VAC doesn't work even more and claims that people are bypassing VAC bans would also go up.
Spawn of Totoro Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:23am 
Originally posted by umadbro?:
In my opinion even cheater who never learn their lesson there will still create a new account and hack again and when there got ban there create new account again and do it again. To me i think its just a waste of steam account database. and if vac bans are remove if we purchase another game then if the guy hack again at least steam will know that the guy never learn his lesson and maybe steam can actually permanently ban them. When there create a new account and hack again steam cant track the hacker that easily anymore. What do you think??

The system work fine the way it is. The database will be fine and you will still have the VAC bans on your account.

No matter how you try and justify the idea, it will not happen. A few cheaters demanding the ability to remove the only evidence people have of them cheating will never out weigh the vast majority that are fine with the system the way it is.

Or should I side with those who think VAC bans should ban every game in the account or even the account it's self and not just the one someone cheated in?

Since you aren't even posting on a real account, but an account with on TF2 on it, I would assume you have a ban on your real account, so of course you would want the ability to remove it.
Last edited by Spawn of Totoro; Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:24am
umadbro? Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:27am 
Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:
Originally posted by umadbro?:
In my opinion even cheater who never learn their lesson there will still create a new account and hack again and when there got ban there create new account again and do it again. To me i think its just a waste of steam account database. and if vac bans are remove if we purchase another game then if the guy hack again at least steam will know that the guy never learn his lesson and maybe steam can actually permanently ban them. When there create a new account and hack again steam cant track the hacker that easily anymore. What do you think??

The system work fine the way it is. The database will be fine and you will still have the VAC bans on your account.

No matter how you try and justify the idea, it will not happen. A few cheaters demanding the ability to remove the only evidence people have of them cheating will never out weigh the vast majority that are fine with the system the way it is.

Or should I side with those who think VAC bans should ban every game in the account or even the account it's self and not just the one someone cheated in?

Since you aren't even posting on a real account, but an account with on TF2 on it, I would assume you have a ban on your real account, so of course you would want the ability to remove it.

Its just my idea. Just trying to make things a bit easier and less troublesome.
Satoru Mar 31, 2013 @ 8:11am 
Originally posted by umadbro?:

Its just my idea. Just trying to make things a bit easier and less troublesome.

I'm all for making things easier and less troublesome.

But for cheaters, anything that maximizes inconvenience isnt' something that needs to be changed

You also have to consider that from an impartial observer standpoint, there isn't any way to tell the difference between

A) Someone like yourself who cheated in teh past and will not so in the future

B) Someone who is a total habitual cheater and just wants to 'clean' a specific account

Note that buying out a VAC ban would allow cheaters to create single game accounts and constantly rotate them between clean/unclean status. This would also greatly undermine the confidence in VAC as bans are 'reversed' constantly. A user may also report a person, they get banned, but then undo the ban. Then the users looks again and sees only that they don't have a VAC ban. Again confidence in the system drops despite it 'working'.

It also gives the impression that VAC is a tiered system. Those with money albe to 'pay to cheat' their way through games. Yes many people already do that, but any impression that Valve is actually sanctioning that and is part of the monetary loop is bad. Epsecially given that people already are stupid enough to think VAC is a 'money making scheme' in it's current iteration.
Last edited by Satoru; Mar 31, 2013 @ 8:19am
facedown Mar 31, 2013 @ 4:30pm 
They do not need to go any easier on cheaters. Be happy your entire account is not banned. Having it remain on your account is a good reminder. Not many honest players are going to support anything to make it easier on those that are selfish enough to ruin games for other players, costing companies large amount of cash trying to combat cheaters at the same time when they could be working on other projects. I don't forgive you.
(SOGA) SouthernBoy Mar 31, 2013 @ 5:20pm 
I understand your proposal, and do not agree with it.

I one of those who says that Vac ban"s should include past cheaters and be noted and not erase just because they started a new account and brought the games again. This is like what others has said above that they are buying away their crimes. (What I mean is even if you brought the games and placed them in a new account it should be stated that you was banned for cheating in that game or any other game that u cheated in).

I know this may sound harshed but it would let all that played with you know that you did cheat in that game.
Last edited by (SOGA) SouthernBoy; Mar 31, 2013 @ 5:24pm
Just wait,Time change.. Mar 31, 2013 @ 5:39pm 
Mister umadro it's seems like corruption your suggestion or are you kidding.

VAC is presently working fine and it is good sooooo.
Rita Vrataski Mar 31, 2013 @ 6:46pm 
What if it were a one time deal? Not one time per game but one time per account. You get a VAC ban and Valve gives you the opportunity to rectify the situation by repurchasing a license thus removing the ban. If it happens one more time you're just screwed, I don't see any kind of issue with this.

Hell to be honest I always thought that a VAC ban should hold a monetary value, $100+ a ban to have a ban removed from your account.
Last edited by Rita Vrataski; Mar 31, 2013 @ 6:49pm
Satoru Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:25pm 
Originally posted by Nya`:
What if it were a one time deal? Not one time per game but one time per account. You get a VAC ban and Valve gives you the opportunity to rectify the situation by repurchasing a license thus removing the ban. If it happens one more time you're just screwed, I don't see any kind of issue with this.

Hell to be honest I always thought that a VAC ban should hold a monetary value, $100+ a ban to have a ban removed from your account.

Cheaters would simply rotate between single account games and get 'free' VAC unbans on them.

And again any impression that ou can 'pay 2 cheat' is utterly deterimental to the perception of VAC which is just as important as it's actual effectiveness. If cheaters know they can pay their way out they behave in very very different ways
Rita Vrataski Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:44pm 
Originally posted by Satoru:
Cheaters would simply rotate between single account games and get 'free' VAC unbans on them.

And again any impression that ou can 'pay 2 cheat' is utterly deterimental to the perception of VAC which is just as important as it's actual effectiveness. If cheaters know they can pay their way out they behave in very very different ways
It would literally change absolutely nothing and you overdramatics always focus on completely irrelevant nonsense, get real.

They buy another license on their account to get rid of a VAC ban.
=
The same thing as making a new account and buying the game again.

No VAC ban.

They spend $100+ to remove a VAC ban from their account.
=
The same thing as making a new account and buying the game again except they had to spend $100+ if they want to continue using that specific account.

It changes nothing, if people want to cheat again they make a new account and cheat, this is no different than buying the game again on the same account and cheating again, the difference is an illusion.
Last edited by Rita Vrataski; Mar 31, 2013 @ 7:44pm
DonVino Mar 31, 2013 @ 8:40pm 
A new account is not the same as an old account. Many communities require certain aspects of "trust" (certain amount of games on account,minimum account creation date...). Having a VAC on the account is then just as bad as having a new account,especially when someone beats the crap out of the server while having 20 hours on the game. And while having 1000 games on your account,9 years on steam,150 friends and 50 groups is no guarantee that someone does not cheat,you can at least be sure he didnt cheat the last 9 years (or at least did not get caught) while someone claiming "I play CS for 10 years" playing on a year old account with no friends on no other games is much more suspicious.

So yes,for the cheater there is no difference,he can cheat again no matter how you handle it. But it's helpful for other ppl when a VAC tag stays.
Last edited by DonVino; Mar 31, 2013 @ 8:41pm
Rita Vrataski Mar 31, 2013 @ 9:06pm 
Originally posted by DonVino:
A new account is not the same as an old account. Many communities require certain aspects of "trust" (certain amount of games on account,minimum account creation date...). Having a VAC on the account is then just as bad as having a new account,especially when someone beats the crap out of the server while having 20 hours on the game. And while having 1000 games on your account,9 years on steam,150 friends and 50 groups is no guarantee that someone does not cheat,you can at least be sure he didnt cheat the last 9 years (or at least did not get caught) while someone claiming "I play CS for 10 years" playing on a year old account with no friends on no other games is much more suspicious.

So yes,for the cheater there is no difference,he can cheat again no matter how you handle it. But it's helpful for other ppl when a VAC tag stays.
Look at me and my account, you would think I am a person to be trusted. I have been playing Counter-Strike for nearly 13 years, I moved from 1.5 to 1.6 the night of Steam going public, I have hundreds of games, I've played in multiple leagues for about a third of that time and in general I appear to be a really good guy.

With that said your whole fallacy comes into play, that is me, that is what people know, trust, see and base their interactions on with me. However, on the side I could have been doing things completely out of the public eye and without anyone ever knowing.

I could have cheated that entire time in pubs, leagues, literally anywhere for that 13 years using other accounts which I have created. Get a VAC ban? Oh no, spend some money during a game sale and get 30 copies of Counter-Strike for $75 and cheat endlessly on account after account, after account, after account.

I don't do that but you see what I am getting at, it is a fallacy and it's completely fallible logic. So yes a new account is the same as an old account, this is the Internet and you don't even know 10% of what you experience of another person or what they do.

Being able to buy your way out of a ban realistically changes absolutely nothing, it only eliminates the need to make new accounts, that's it.
Last edited by Rita Vrataski; Mar 31, 2013 @ 9:11pm
DonVino Mar 31, 2013 @ 9:29pm 
Your argument would be valid if all cheaters would do that,yet many get at least 1 ban on their main til they move to new accounts. And it doesnt even matter what you do with other accounts. Lets say you want to join a clan. With your main account,sure no problem. You couldnt cheat ofc since it is now your main account thats on the risk. You could ofc play in this clan after joining with your new account,but admin rights/league account etc. are tied to your steam ID usually,so that wouldn't work. With your alternate accounts you probably wouldnt even be able to join at all. Just as an example.

I am not saying you are wrong,you are actually pretty right with your point,but its not how the reality is. One of the main reasons for ppl wanting to get timebans,pay2deVAC and lifting the VAC ban often is because they got vacced on their main account.

Besides especially when you say "nothing would change",why do you want to change it all then?

Also,one of Satorus points is still valid. Pay2unban would be basically the same as new account,since the cheater can play again after buying a new license,but the signal would be different.

Speaking of licenses,there is also the dev/publisher who wants say a few words,too. They forbid the cheating,they say in their license agreement that you are not allowed to cheat and that cheating will result in a ban. It's still their game. Ofc now you will say "they wouldnt know",which is probably true in most cases ^^.
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Date Posted: Mar 30, 2013 @ 11:56pm
Posts: 72