Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 1:42am
I'm really sick of worrying that I'll be banned on my $10,000 account for making my games look better
Valve needs to come out and state for the record whether graphical mods are okay or not okay because I'm honestly sick of worrying that I'll be banned on an account worth so much by using something like SweetFX/ENB/GeDoSaTo (a mod that downsamples from 4K to 1080P in order to make aliasing a non-issue).

I understand that there needs to be some mystery behind the system but these aren't cheats and thousands of people are wondering the same thing about Dark Souls 2 and it sucks because there are plenty of people using trainers in offline mode then going into online mode playing without a problem and we're sitting around worried whether our accounts are going to be banned for something that by no means is providing an advantage to users.

Can we please settle this once and for all?
Showing 1-15 of 62 comments
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LEOdf May 4, 2014 @ 2:21am 
I just don't get this compulsive need to tinker with everything. Can't you just PLAY THE D*MN GAME the way it is??

No, Steam will never say this is ok. They don't have the time to dissect and reverse engineer every mod/addon out there. Whichever one is all the rage this week, that is. Then next week, then the next.. Or keep track of every single update to every single one of them even if they do OK it. . And if they do say XXXX is OK. the programmer can just add any crap in a future update, and it triggers a VAC ban. Then it'll be a whole HE said, SHE said, yadda, yadda....

Just leave the d*mn games alone!!
Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 2:43am 
Originally posted by LEOdf:
I just don't get this compulsive need to tinker with everything. Can't you just PLAY THE D*MN GAME the way it is??

No, Steam will never say this is ok. They don't have the time to dissect and reverse engineer every mod/addon out there. Whichever one is all the rage this week, that is. Then next week, then the next.. Or keep track of every single update to every single one of them even if they do OK it. . And if they do say XXXX is OK. the programmer can just add any crap in a future update, and it triggers a VAC ban. Then it'll be a whole HE said, SHE said, yadda, yadda....

Just leave the d*mn games alone!!
Not when I have the ability to turn this to this

http://static-4.nexusmods.com/15/mods/482/images/7-2-1398609898.jpg
and this into this
http://s22.postimg.org/qqlrts6td/color.png

It's my decision to modify the graphics and it isn't hurting a single other person. Not to mention I pay out the ♥♥♥ to get the PC experience and that includes graphical modding benefits. It isn't giving an advantage to myself, in fact it probably puts me at a disadvantage because the interiors are darker, which are already plenty dark.

Just because you don't understand the need to tinker doesn't mean no one else should reserve that right, especially considering that the PC as a platform prides itself on user-created content in order to improve games graphically and sometimes even in terms of gameplay. That certainly was true with the original Dark Souls and it's selling thousands of copies to this day because of it.

Valve is a billion dollar company and they can easily allocate the resources towards developing better tools to protect products being sold on the storefront and user's experiences with them. VAC's entire objective is to eliminate cheats, not modifications that do not harm online experiences in any way, shape or form.
Last edited by Alexander DeLarge; May 4, 2014 @ 2:52am
(SOGA) SouthernBoy May 4, 2014 @ 3:08am 
I understand what you are saying but Valve reserves the right to define what a hack,cheat, and yes even a mod is; and to make a self determining decision on if they will consider it a violation of such agreements. IF you want a guarranty, get it from the writer of such software and if it brings a ban, then sue them, but Valve has legal rights to be self determent, and to say what it will accept and will not accept. (This does not mean it will give away it's methods and or detection protocols)

I know this does not really help with what you are asking per say, but then ask the writer/publisher/ect of such software.

Have a Nice Day !!!
Last edited by (SOGA) SouthernBoy; May 4, 2014 @ 3:13am
Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 3:12am 
Originally posted by (SOGA) SouthernBoy:
I understand what you are saying but Valve reserves the right to define what a hack,cheat, yes even a mod is, and to make a self determining decision on if they will consider it a violation of such agreements. IF you want a guarranty, get it from the writer of such software and if it brings a ban, then sue them, but Valve has legal rights to be self determent, and to say what it will accept and will not accept.

I know this does not really help with what you are asking per say, but then ask the writer/publisher/ect of such software.

Have a Nice Day !!!

According to the terms of service, Valve has the right to shut down your account just because they feel like it. That doesn't mean it's right but I can see why they'd have that clause in there, legally speaking. I find it extremely hypocritical that you'd take that stance given that Valve has profited infinitely off of the modding of their own games but now we're dealing with the fact that a graphical mod could end up in permanent bans simply because the community wants the game to look better and the know-how on how to do it.
Last edited by Alexander DeLarge; May 4, 2014 @ 3:29am
(SOGA) SouthernBoy May 4, 2014 @ 3:15am 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Originally posted by (SOGA) SouthernBoy:
I understand what you are saying but Valve reserves the right to define what a hack,cheat, yes even a mod is, and to make a self determining decision on if they will consider it a violation of such agreements. IF you want a guarranty, get it from the writer of such software and if it brings a ban, then sue them, but Valve has legal rights to be self determent, and to say what it will accept and will not accept.

I know this does not really help with what you are asking per say, but then ask the writer/publisher/ect of such software.

Have a Nice Day !!!

According to the terms of service, Valve has the right to shut down your account just because they feel like it. That doesn't mean it's right but I can see why they'd have that clause in there, legally speaking. I find it extremely hypocritical that you'd take that stance given that Valve has profited infinitely off of the modding of their own games but now we're dealing with the fact that a graphical mod could end up in permanent bans simply because the community wants the game to look better and the know-how on how to do it.

What is right or wrong has nothing to do with it, when you agree to terms of a contract, you must abide by the rules listed and or stated. (with in standard fair business practices, of course)

"I find it extremely hypocritical that you'd take that stance given that Valve has profited infinitely off of the modding of their own games"

I make no stance as you have stated, which is a falsehood of your own making, but stated the facts only.
Last edited by (SOGA) SouthernBoy; May 4, 2014 @ 3:37am
Talon May 4, 2014 @ 3:21am 
Some typical EULA's

Paradox's
Unless provided otherwise in the Documentation, you shall not display, modify, reproduce and distribute any Game Content, or portion(s) thereof, included with or relating to the Software Product,

Rockstars
You agree not to:....

reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;

World of Tanks
. In whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game; provided, however, that you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the Manuals for archival purposes only;

You have zero right to alter games, period. So if those games want to VAC ban you for graphics mods, they can and will.
Last edited by Talon; May 4, 2014 @ 3:22am
Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 3:31am 
Originally posted by Gareth:
Some typical EULA's

Paradox's
Unless provided otherwise in the Documentation, you shall not display, modify, reproduce and distribute any Game Content, or portion(s) thereof, included with or relating to the Software Product,

Rockstars
You agree not to:....

reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, display, perform, prepare derivative works based on, or otherwise modify the Software, in whole or in part;

World of Tanks
. In whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game; provided, however, that you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the Manuals for archival purposes only;

You have zero right to alter games, period. So if those games want to VAC ban you for graphics mods, they can and will.
And by defending this, you are going against your own self-interests as a PC user. Also SweetFX/ENB are not messing with any of the original files. It's post-processing FX to make the game look better and it does wonders, keyword post-processing.
Talon May 4, 2014 @ 3:41am 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
And by defending this, you are going against your own self-interests as a PC user.

Games have always had these terms and conditions. Just because some games allow, or even encourage people to mod them doesn't mean you have a right to do it with all games.

Besides it's not in my, or most peoples, interest. The majority do not mod.

I still play games from the early 90's without the need for graphics mods. When it comes to games graphics is way below Fun, Story, Plot etc in terms of importance to me. I have zero respect or sympathy for graphics snobs. I don't even consider them gamers.
Last edited by Talon; May 4, 2014 @ 3:41am
Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 3:46am 
Originally posted by Gareth:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
And by defending this, you are going against your own self-interests as a PC user.

Games have always had these terms and conditions. Just because some games allow, or even encourage people to mod them doesn't mean you have a right to do it with all games.

Besides it's not in my, or most peoples, interest. The majority do not mod.

I still play games from the early 90's without the need for graphics mods. When it comes to games graphics is way below Fun, Story, Plot etc in terms of importance to me. I have zero respect or sympathy for graphics snobs. I don't even consider them gamers.
Explain to me why when I have the ability to make the game look even better on hardware that I've paid thousands for, that I shouldn't? I mean five minutes out of the hundreds of hours that I'll be playing the game is absolutely nothing in comparison. Also the majority does not mod but hundreds of thousands of downloads of particular mods have occurred within the past week and two days.

Why should those people get banned for something that literally does not affect anyone else in any way, shape or form? It doesn't modify files, it doesn't give anyone an advantage, even in games like Counter Strike Global Offensive which I have linked above.
Talon May 4, 2014 @ 3:56am 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Why should those people get banned for something that literally does not affect anyone else in any way, shape or form? It doesn't modify files, it doesn't give anyone an advantage, even in games like Counter Strike Global Offensive which I have linked above.

Because a mod that changes textures resolution could just as easily, in a game like CSS say, set the wall textures to invisible giving a player a huge advantage.

There was a lot of that in minecraft, it was impossible to tell what a texture pack did. It could have made the game just look better, ot it could have made the ground invisible and highlighted all the rare ores, player's, chests etc.

As I stated, you have zero rights to modify a game. Either don't buy them, don't mod them or accept you could be banned from multiplayer games for moding them.
Alexander DeLarge May 4, 2014 @ 4:08am 
Originally posted by Gareth:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Why should those people get banned for something that literally does not affect anyone else in any way, shape or form? It doesn't modify files, it doesn't give anyone an advantage, even in games like Counter Strike Global Offensive which I have linked above.

Because a mod that changes textures resolution could just as easily, in a game like CSS say, set the wall textures to invisible giving a player a huge advantage.

There was a lot of that in minecraft, it was impossible to tell what a texture pack did. It could have made the game just look better, ot it could have made the ground invisible and highlighted all the rare ores, player's, chests etc.

As I stated, you have zero rights to modify a game. Either don't buy them, don't mod them or accept you could be banned from multiplayer games for moding them.

That's not true, it would be impossible to manipulate textures using post-processing FX because it is not manipulating game data. Either way, there isn't really anything that could be done in Dark Souls to give a player the upper hand, you're either the better player or you're not.

As I said earlier, in the case that Valve did decide to act against graphical mods that do nothing but essentially conduct "color correction" and downsample resolutions, something that a few hardcore PC games do already... It's extremely hypocritical for Valve's anti-cheat system to take such a stance when they've profited so much off of the modding community. I don't think they would, false-positives do happen and I'd like to believe that they'd make an exception to their "VAC bans are final policy" in the case that something harmless was picked up but I think it needs to be stated whether purely aesthetic mods that do not provide any advantage to the player are banned or not.

A companies' legalese is much different to their actions and If such a company were to take a stance against graphical modifications, the outrage and PR backlash wouldn't even be worth it. Why bother if it isn't hurting anyone? As I said before, the cheaters are rampant and we're sitting around worried whether we can make our game darker or not.
Astori Heichalot May 4, 2014 @ 8:15am 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Explain to me why when I have the ability to make the game look even better on hardware that I've paid thousands for, that I shouldn't?
while I understand your point,

but when it is about "rules" which binds the EULA that you agreed upon,
valve do have the right to do whatever it desires.

it is not about whether you could or should do.

added:

dont get me wrong, I totally agree with you regarding graphical enhancement,
but the reason I am not doing it, is exactly because of that
Last edited by Astori Heichalot; May 4, 2014 @ 8:17am
Sucy Manbavaran May 4, 2014 @ 8:58am 
the fact of you can buy a ferrari dont mean you have the rigth to modify the roads only for run your expensive car,you acept the licence terms so is not valid complain about breaking even if are inofensive mod,is very dificult make a full list of secure mods,and after all the video GAMES are called GAMES for one reason if you like the graphics over the general gameplay I sugest you watch some good cg movies at end is more or less the same experience when you paly a graphics focused game.
anyway luck with that
see you!!!!!!!
..
RedLightning May 4, 2014 @ 11:52am 
Originally posted by Archduke:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Explain to me why when I have the ability to make the game look even better on hardware that I've paid thousands for, that I shouldn't?
Because you entered an agreement stating that you wont.
If you dont agree to these terms, do not click the AGREE button.
It doesn't modify files
It does.

Any proof that it does?
Ineffable Anathema May 4, 2014 @ 12:00pm 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

It's my decision to modify the graphics and it isn't hurting a single other person. Not to mention I pay out the ♥♥♥ to get the PC experience and that includes graphical modding benefits.

It's also the developer's decision whether or not to ban you from the game for modifying any bit of it as they choose. Your entitled attitude doesn't change this. If you have issues with the EULA connected to a specific game, then it's simple - don't purchase that company's games. They don't owe you anything for buying a license to play the game.

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Valve is a billion dollar company and they can easily allocate the resources towards developing better tools to protect products being sold on the storefront and user's experiences with them. VAC's entire objective is to eliminate cheats, not modifications that do not harm online experiences in any way, shape or form.

Valve doesn't own Dark Souls 2.
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Date Posted: May 4, 2014 @ 1:42am
Posts: 74