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How does blocking market access "protect" me?
Hint: It doesn't.

Stuff like this will make me rage-quit steam. This is a catastrophe. This whole attempt is like a giant sadness. It only hurts legitimate users. It's like holy cow you want us to spend money but won't let us at the same time. That's not what you're supposed to do. And let's not even start with the lackluster search (dis)function. When I tried to use it I was like.....oh my god I find (steam market) unusable.

So someone is going to hack my account and buy stuff on the market. Right. I guess they have to have hacked my email too for the verification code. So two separate hacks on different systems from different companies. And one would presume that the passwords on both systems aren't in plaintext in a file called passwords.txt.

And for a whole week. With no way to say, "Hey steam it's me please let me give you my money now."

So in the scenario they've created: Said person has been hacked and the hacker is allowed to continue using the account.....but it's ok because he can't buy stuff off the market. Oh and the hacker can buy anything he wants from the steamstore.

Yeah, you've totally protected us.

I know steam is fond of collecting data....and occasionally releasing some. So where is the data showing that hackers have been stealing account, changing the password, hacking the email, using the email for the verification code, buying stuff off the market. And that this 1-week block is an effective countermeasure.

I realize it's a beta. Hence me complaining now while I have the chance.

If we don't get this changed, the terrorists win.
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Showing 1-15 of 68 comments
Satoru Oct 6, 2013 @ 11:25pm 
It also protects other users in the event you are doing something fradulent.
sfnhltb Oct 7, 2013 @ 1:51am 
Surely the attacker wouldn't want to buy games on your account because it is likely you will get it back sooner or later. But what they could do is sell all your cards, TF/DOTA2/CSGO items for cheap so they sell quickly, and then spend the money generated in your steam wallet to buy something massively overpriced off the market to get the money out of your account. Then how does Steam support deal with that situation? Lots of other Steam users now have all your stuff they paid for in good faith (even if it was cheaper than normal), does that get confiscated from them?
Tito Shivan Oct 7, 2013 @ 2:44am 
User gets his account stolen.
User buys your items with a stolen CC.
You use that money to buy some game.
Money is chargebacked.
Your game is removed and find yourself with a negative wallet balance.
You have to bear a week of fighting with Support to sort things out.
(And if you traded the bought game/item) you have to bear a locked account and being marked as a scammer

That's how the feature protects you. Stopping those funds to reach the market.
How exactly do you end up with a negative balance in that scenario?

I would assume that if they are trying to correct the illegal actions then they would remove the game first, at which point they have to "give you the money back for 1 second". Then they remove that money, which puts you back where you started....at a positive balance. Then they give you your item back. Person with stolen CC gets the refund because it was stolen. The person that got hacked gets told they were hacked and needs to verify in some way that they have control again. Steam tries to find the person that hacked the account(unlikely but ok). All users involved are back to where they were before the hack. If found, the hacker gets charged for damages to valve. If not they claim tax deductions and don't actually lose any money anyways.
And afaik you can't take money out of the steam wallet. The attacker can't really give themselves money. They would at best get a virtual item that has no effective value since the only market is a closed system within steam. So it's not like valve can't correct it when they realize something has happened.

The ONLY reason they implemented this feature is to save themselves potential support costs at the expense of legitimate users. They didn't do this to protect users. It doesn't protect us. There is already a remedy for these situations. It's called support.
2point4 Oct 7, 2013 @ 5:45am 
This feature protects Valve. Plain and simple. It's a disservice to the greater majority of customers to benefit the relatively few that will take up a majority of support's time. It was an easy out that is evidenced by the hastiness of the original rollout of the feature.
crunchyfrog Oct 7, 2013 @ 7:36am 
To add to what others have said here, your big mistake is assuming that it protects JUST YOU. It doesn't - it protects and makes life easier for everyone.
Doogz Oct 7, 2013 @ 7:51am 
ok
Tito Shivan Oct 7, 2013 @ 7:52am 
Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
How exactly do you end up with a negative balance in that scenario?
Long story short: You have $15 in wallet, get some shady $5, buy a $20 game.
When the money is chargebacked, you suddenly are 5$ short of money. The game is removed, and you are still to pay those 5$ you 'owe' for the game you bought.

Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
And afaik you can't take money out of the steam wallet. The attacker can't really give themselves money. They would at best get a virtual item that has no effective value since the only market is a closed system within steam. So it's not like valve can't correct it when they realize something has happened.
Long Story short again: Buy in game items with stolen CC, sell those items for paypal money out of the market. You just washed dirty money from a stolen credit card.
(BTW, this already happened many months ago with a series of russian scammers)
Originally posted by Tito Shivan:
Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
How exactly do you end up with a negative balance in that scenario?
Long story short: You have $15 in wallet, get some shady $5, buy a $20 game.
When the money is chargebacked, you suddenly are 5$ short of money. The game is removed, and you are still to pay those 5$ you 'owe' for the game you bought.

Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
And afaik you can't take money out of the steam wallet. The attacker can't really give themselves money. They would at best get a virtual item that has no effective value since the only market is a closed system within steam. So it's not like valve can't correct it when they realize something has happened.
Long Story short again: Buy in game items with stolen CC, sell those items for paypal money out of the market. You just washed dirty money from a stolen credit card.
(BTW, this already happened many months ago with a series of russian scammers)

Well either valve will say you got it in good faith and let it go so you aren't short or they remove the game and HAVE to refund the 15$ and remove the 5$. If you didn't do anything wrong then they can't just take something away that you paid for without giving your money back. (ok there's probably something in the TOS that says they can but it would be REALLY bad PR and they'd have to make sure it's legal for them to do that in EVERY country which of course will all have different laws as well as different state laws in the us alone)
And if someone has a stolen CC, I doubt they would take the step of adding it to a compromised account....they would create a new account and use it there.
crunchyfrog Oct 7, 2013 @ 8:30am 
Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
And if someone has a stolen CC, I doubt they would take the step of adding it to a compromised account....they would create a new account and use it there.

But they do. A compromised account is often precisely WHY they do it - there's less risk of being found out.


Originally posted by {Beep Boop:
Originally posted by Tito Shivan:
Long story short: You have $15 in wallet, get some shady $5, buy a $20 game.
When the money is chargebacked, you suddenly are 5$ short of money. The game is removed, and you are still to pay those 5$ you 'owe' for the game you bought.


Long Story short again: Buy in game items with stolen CC, sell those items for paypal money out of the market. You just washed dirty money from a stolen credit card.
(BTW, this already happened many months ago with a series of russian scammers)

Well either valve will say you got it in good faith and let it go so you aren't short or they remove the game and HAVE to refund the 15$ and remove the 5$. If you didn't do anything wrong then they can't just take something away that you paid for without giving your money back. (ok there's probably something in the TOS that says they can but it would be REALLY bad PR and they'd have to make sure it's legal for them to do that in EVERY country which of course will all have different laws as well as different state laws in the us alone)

I think you're failing to understand the chain of events here.

Tito Shivan has pointed them out, and used the term "washing money" - this is very appropriate.

If Valve end up out of pocket they ARE going to take it back from you. It is then up to YOU, or the other parties to make good. That's how these things work.

It's much like if I buy a car with a credit card, and that car turns out to be faulty in some way that I reject it, requesting full refund. The seller refuses, and I can therefore go to my credit card provider and INSIST they reimburse me as they lent me the money, THEY are responsbile for it.

They then reimburse - after I shown them evidence of course - and THEY in turn go after the seller to reimburse them.

It's a simple chain of events.
Last edited by crunchyfrog; Oct 7, 2013 @ 8:34am
I get what you're saying but I would assume that they have to give your item back. It's technically your property and they can't just seize it if you aren't the one commiting fraud. Sure they can charge you the 5$ for the game. But sell the item again and you have no net loss other than a bit of time.
And if the money is only in the wallet and has no CC connection then the remedies are solely in the hands of valve. For example: selling cards that gives you wallet money.

In that case it seems like valve would have to refund the account the purchase was made from or they'd be knowingly keeping proceeds of crime due to the fees they charge. And I don't think valve could take the item and still try and charge the 5$. They'd have to reverse all the transactions.
Kickin' Chicken Oct 7, 2013 @ 10:43am 
If you don't like it, you can always ignore it. Nobody's forced to participate.
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Date Posted: Oct 6, 2013 @ 11:05pm
Posts: 68