Timewarp 26. apr 2013 kl. 7:20pm
Disturbing Trend in Gaming.
No one likes clingy girlfriends so why do game companies think we want them to be all over us?

Diablo 3 had A LOT of problems but the "always online" requirement annoyed the hell out of me. Sim City isn't my thing but I was really happy that it's release was such a disaster. And now we have rumors of the new xbox requiring a constant internet connection to work. That's a deal breaker for me. Won't be buying that POS.

Even Steam is disappointing me. I bought Far Cry 3 last week and was greeted with an automatic install of some crap software from Ubisoft. Can't play the game that I bought from Steam w/o this thing UPlay program being open.

Here's the thing guys, stupid stuff like this doesn't make me want to buy MORE games but LESS.

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Dreakon 26. apr 2013 kl. 7:29pm 
I think they realize that players don't like having to jump through so many hoops just to play, but I think they also realize that most players will without thinking twice really. The reward (introducing users to their services, playing games on their servers, buying games from their stores, etc) is greater than the risk (losing users, lower sales) at this point.

I agree it's not a good thing, but uPlay really isn't that intrusive from everything I've seen. There are probably worse culprits to go after.
Sidst redigeret af Dreakon; 26. apr 2013 kl. 7:33pm
Timewarp 26. apr 2013 kl. 7:44pm 
Yeah I really have nothing against Ubisoft but it's just getting a little ridiculous at this point. Not everything can or should be Steam.
Kablam0 26. apr 2013 kl. 8:10pm 
It used to be just competion between the devs and publishers and their games. Now the competition has spread into their own digital services as well, for good and for bad - well, more bad, quite frankly, then good. (Shakes fist at GFWL).

There is a lot of money to be made by collecting and selling your gaming 'experience' to data farms. We are all - up for sale.
Sidst redigeret af Kablam0; 26. apr 2013 kl. 8:22pm
jonkets 26. apr 2013 kl. 8:33pm 
I totally agree with the above.

The PC is dieing (people moving to mobile devices) and one of the reasons is exactly this kind of crap. Gaming and software developers think they have us over a barrel so they can abuse our loyalty. It's not just gaming. Evem Microsoft and especially Adobe put default check boxes in their updates that by default add menu bars, change home pages, and install unwanted addons.

My hope is that it's reaching the tipping point where some smart provider of games, software and services will realize there is a market for products that don't treat the buyer like a research lab rats.

Anyone know of a gamer advocasy group? I'd join in a heartbeat. Time to put some pressure on our abusers.
Samalot 26. apr 2013 kl. 11:45pm 
I don't understand the completely over the top hate campaigns that people wage against certain games. My computer, and I suspect nearly everyone else's on here, is nearly always connected to the internet, especially when using steam or playing computer games. I have wifi in every room in my house and my computer automatically connects to it whenever it logs on.

The reality is that games cost more to develop than they ever have done in the past. Publishers can easily have to pay over $80 million just for a single AAA game these days. To make up for this increased cost they have to generate increased revenue. They can either do this through lots of dlc (which people constantly whine about) or by stopping piracy.

The only known way to stop piracy is to make your game always online. To this day no one has been able to pirate either Diablo 3 or Sim City. There is a reason that both of these games sold an insane amount of copies.

Diablo 3 has sold over 12 million copies(!) and Sim City has sold over 1.1 million in its first two weeks alone. Diablo 3 is the best selling game of 2012, it has the third highest sales in the history of pc gaming (after only 11 months) and it has sold more than three times what Diablo 2 sold in its entire 12 year life span.

Having my games online >> having my games inevitably increase in price (there are already rumors that ps3 games are going to cost $80 each).
Sidst redigeret af Samalot; 26. apr 2013 kl. 11:47pm
Zefar 26. apr 2013 kl. 11:46pm 
I don't have a problem with that. I have a bigger problem with more and more gamers defending bad ports.

Dark soul port was horrible but people still praised it.
People praised The War Z
People praised God Mode which had 45 FPS limit and always on Mic.

The list goes on and on. The more people praise bad gameplay design the less the game will get improved. Some minor launch issues with DRM is the least of my problems.


Oh and PC are not dying. It never will die.
☎ ColdSun 27. apr 2013 kl. 12:47am 
Darksouls worked fine with a controller (which was strongly recommended).
And.... it wasn't that hard to get to work in eyefinity, something most games still drop the ball on
Rove 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:19am 
I agree OP. It's not only games, it's software in general.

For example, Windows requires a "product key" by defualt when it should be automatically on the install disc without need for customer input and allow for one to be used manually if the defualt one is broken or something.

I find companies are really pushy of customer's legal consumer right's, their other legal rights and also of what's "fair" in terms of price. Games are big business now and just like movies and music that draws big greed, big egos, organized crime, con artists and other junk. Fortunately it also does attract competition and hopefully the best at game making, competative pricing and at treating their customers well will win in the long term.

Many of the things companies do to or in their software products could be counted as a computer hacking crime under federal law. A good example of that is in-game-advertising in paid for and purchased games, while it might be legal in completely free products if the user is notified beforehand it certainly isn't in products that are paid for. Under Canadian Law it's "Unauthorized Use of a (my) Computer", a computer hacking crime. USA and most or all European countries have similar laws. In any countries that do not you can count it as "Tresspass" instead. Some places may even have specific laws regulating software advertising and prohibiting it from being in paid products. Yet it seems to flourish as a form of organized crime, non-violent granted but still organized crime.

All the contracts that get pushed on people nowdays via digital means are also totally over the top, things like the Steam Subscriber agreement for example or the page long documents you have to blindly click "I Agree" buttons on EVERY time you install software be it Windows, Java, Flash or nearly anything else. If they aren't illegal or automatically invalid they should be and I personally am going to act as if they are because otherwise I could waste YEARS OF MY LIFE reading every single one of them and then wishing I could afford to refuse. I can't, at this point I depend on my free ability to use my computer and I say free meaning freedom, not meaning that I do not pay for it. Imagine if every time you had to buy food you had to signed a legal paper promising to perform services for them or abide by things other than just the simple "I pay you I take food" contract of purchase and sale at the point of sale. I wouldn't honor that and I won't honor the bulk of digital boilerplate contracts either. I'd honor a digital contract that I and or or the person wishing to enter into a contract with me personally drew up for 1 time use for a valid reason (where both have commitments under tha contract and it's not just a "or I won't sell to you or let you use my product" contract but that's different. If it comes to violent enforcement I would rebel and fight back just like a video game hero :)

I also generally think you have a legal right to buy things that are for sale, without that kind of junk being pushed at you and the right to purchase and use even if you refuse.

Legally all those digitally pushed boilerplate contracts are actually invalid anyways in my opinion because they are all "Unconsionable" meaning they unfairly or exclusively favor only 1 party. Like for example a contract saying "I agree to be your slave for life Signed (name here)" which would be ruled invalid and unconsionable by any fair court anywhere.

Since when is it that basic copyright and contract simple of purchase and sale (I pay money, I receive good(s) with no other complications or agreements) aren't enough between customer and merchant?

Things like poor value DLC, Microtransactions, software subscriptions and other ways to overcharge customers also really upset me and generally I boycott them. How long before I can't buy any games without either microtransactions or subscriptions though?

The reason those things upset me is because they provide poor value to the customers, or if that is to be considered "fair value" then whatever currency is being used is worth a lot less due to this sudden inflation. They make really good money for some of the people doing them, but they do not create "wealth" nearly as fast as more competative business models like "demo and full product, try free, buy once and never pay $1 for anything related again".

Wealth is all the wonderful things our society has accumulated. It's not $, it's what they are worth. "You can't eat your money" and you can't use it for much else usefuil either except to wipe your bum, blow your nose or light a fire.

I'm grateful for all the wonderful things done by people who have had and taken the honest chance to generate wealth and pass it about on fair terms.

In conclusion my personal economic theory:
There are two ways to make money:
1. Decrease the standard of living (thus to take more for yourself at expense of others)
2. Decrease the cost of living (thus to free up more money some of which you might earn)

Obviously way 1 is bad globally and hopefully never becomes the standard. It's what I'd call "pure evil". Way 2 meanwhile is it's opposite, good and historically is what has been happening globally more than the bad which is why we are left with more wealth in the present day than in the past. Of course historically it's true that a mixture of the two happen. There have been darkages as well where society became poorer than historically was the case. I hope we learn from these and avoid them in the future.

~Rove
Sidst redigeret af Rove; 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:44am
jonkets 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:31am 
I am not expressing any hatred toward any game. If I disaggree with what some one does it does not mean I hate them. Further, I agree with Samalot that piracy is a problem and developers (and gamers) have to do what they can to protect their property (real or intellectual). There is a problem with theft that I don't pretend to have the answer to.

BUT, when I buy a product, I expect that I own it. I am not buying a perpectual lease the use of which gives the leasor the right to sell my activity data or to require me to access my product by returning to their store everytime I want to play. And I don't want to worry about lag time when I'm in single player mode. The first time my high level Diablo character was killed by lag in single player mode (the only time it was killed) was the last time I played Diablo.

Yes, there are complex issues that need to be dealt with. But that doesn't mean gamers should stand by and accept solutions that benefit only the developers. Especially when those developers take advantage of the situation.

I own my games; I'm not leasing them. It's the gamers' money that give the developers their profits. It's time we are treated as valuable customers (not beta testers or 'privileged guests').
Rove 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:40am 
Free functional demos and highly competative pricing is the answer to piracy.

Be realistic. There is soooo many movies and music that the bulk of them (after a few years) are worth pennies each and the average person globally still can't afford to buy them digitally cause they don't have a computer. Even the average well-to-do computer user could still spend a lot of money at pennies each and NOT be able to buy them all.

The same is true to some degree or another for absolutely everything that can be digitally distributed. Outcompete the pirates, otherwise they probably won't go away unless everyone gets rich enough never to want to and that'd probably be considered inflation?

Other than that, it's also very hard or impossible to prove that a pirate would otherwise be a happy paying customer if piracy wasn't available.
Sidst redigeret af Rove; 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:47am
No One 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:45am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Timewarp:
And now we have rumors of the new xbox requiring a constant internet connection to work. That's a deal breaker for me. Won't be buying that POS.
its microsoft and there planning the new train reck . think surface + zune + bing + vista fail all at 1 time with 1 product. after 2 years theyll probably sell the new xbox with fire extinguishers and act like they did you a favor instead of making it capable of maintaining a reasonable core temp
Samalot 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:54am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Rove:
Free functional demos and highly competative pricing is the answer to piracy.
This is simply not true though. It's wishful thinking. Demo's have literally no impact on piracy and some analysts think they can actually LOWER game sales: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122056-Game-Dev-Claims-Demos-Hurt-Game-Sales

'Competitive' pricing doesn't affect piracy either because you see many low priced, indie games getting pirated like crazy too. Just look at what the hotline miami dev had to say: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-11-the-hotline-miami-sales-story-and-more

The developers of The Witcher 2 said that while they sold over 1 million copies of their game, it was pirated over 4.5 million times!! http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/11/30/the-witcher-2-was-pirated-over-45-million-times

If games are costing more and more to make, bug fix and then market you can't lower their prices. That would be suicidal for many publishers. I appreciate that most people are going to close their eyes and ignore this reality because it's not what they want to see, but the truth is that pc devs are either going to have to make games with 1/3rd of the budget they should have, make insane amounts of overpriced dlc or make f2p games. The only alternative to this is to make them always online so that they can have a proper budget. It is no coincidence that every game that has been made unpirateable by always online has sold extrodinarily well. To ignore this is to ignore reality....But a lot of people still will.
Sidst redigeret af Samalot; 27. apr 2013 kl. 3:55am
Gus the Crocodile 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:13am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Samalot:
but the truth is that pc devs are either going to have to make games with 1/3rd of the budget they should have, make insane amounts of overpriced dlc or make f2p games
So, uh, what is the budget they "should have"? Should have according to who, or what?

There is no right to make things at a particular budget. If I want to spend fifty million dollars making a sculpture, that's my right if I can find the money, but if it turns out that making sculptures with that kind of budget isn't a sound way of getting returns on the investment, well, that's how markets work.
Sidst redigeret af Gus the Crocodile; 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:14am
Tito Shivan 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:29am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af jonkets:
The PC is dieing (people moving to mobile devices) and one of the reasons is exactly this kind of crap. Gaming and software developers think they have us over a barrel so they can abuse our loyalty. It's not just gaming. Evem Microsoft and especially Adobe put default check boxes in their updates that by default add menu bars, change home pages, and install unwanted addons.
I've been hearing 'PC gaming Is dying' for as long i have memory for. Yet here we are still.
And if someone thinks people on mobile devices got a better kind of deal, think twice. Mobile 'Walled Gardens' can be as draconian as the worst PC DRM.

I do agree that 'side-software' bundled with certains programs ara a PITA, but as long as i have a choose in whether they install or not, they are private delas between companies.

If you really want to stop a trend, stop it with your wallet, not posting things on a forum.
Rove 27. apr 2013 kl. 4:51am 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Samalot:
This is simply not true though...

Torchlight No DRM
Torchlight 2. No DRM.
www.GOG.com No DRM

If it is good people will buy it after they pirate it when they can afford it.

These small business can make money in spite of piracy at competative prices with free DLC, No DRM, Free games, modding support and more.

To GeorgePatton: Piracy is victimless crime, a infringment of legal copyright which does not rob the original owner of their original copy of the work, entering someone's home and taking things is not victimless. There is a really really big difference. I do agree though that it is the same reason, world overpopulation, scarcity and unequal distribution of wealth.
Sidst redigeret af Rove; 27. apr 2013 kl. 5:01am
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