ADDITIONAL WATERFOWL Jul 26, 2013 @ 2:54am
Are there any skills that aren't worth taking?
I don't mean as a new player or anything, i'm just wondering if you people who've played longer than I have think any skill tree isn't worth taking for one reason or another? The only one that I can think of that'd be like that is Vampirism, and i've never gotten too far with that skill anyway, so it might be more useful than I've gotten a chance to see.
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Haldurson Jul 26, 2013 @ 6:15am 
I disagree on vampirism -- it's not for everyone, and it requires certain kinds of skills to turn it from a detriment to an asset. Combine it with skills that add to health regeneration to increase the effect of the llife drain, plus take at least one skill that gives you a heal, and it can be really good. It's not a skill that you want to take lightly, but one that you create a build around to support and strengthen

There's actually a few skills like that, which are not meant to be picked at random to fill in for a skill when you can't think of anything else. Another example of that is Clockwork Knight. You don't create a semi-random build, and then just throw in CK for the heck of it. You start with CK, and then pick the skills that go with it. Another example is Warlockery. You don't pick Warlockery lightly because of the mana cost of taking it. The big 3 AE mage skills are like that also, you select it, then build around it (Promethean, Necronomiconomics and Egyptian Magic). /Edit correction -- after I typed that, I realized that in actuality you CAN take Egyptian as a throw-away because it can fit into a hybrid/gish build if you don't use it as the centerpiece for your build.

I think a lot of skills that people will choose here are not going to be 'bad' skills, but instead skills that the particular person doesn't like, or skills that maybe need a slight push to balance them, or skills that are situational, or skills that have negatives to them (such as vampirism) that you may not quite understand (yet) how to deal with those negatives.

There are certainly some skills that I hardly ever choose, and when I do, they are usually the last skills that I add points into. For me, one of those is Crossbows. Don't get me wrong, I recently wrote an explanation in response to someone else's thread talking about their crossbow build, of who is and is not best off taking the crossbow skill. It's NOT a bad skill, and it does fill a specific niche, and I have been known to (occasionally) take it. I just feel that it's a skill that does not have great purpose until much later in the game, and you can always come up with a convincing reason why a different skill will make a decent substitute. IF you like it, take it. It does give you a (albeit weak) crossbow to start the game with, so there's that. It's just not usually what comes to mind when I have six skills selected and I'm trying to come up with a seventh.

Yet another skill that I almost never choose is Wand Crafting. Again, it's not a bad skill. I just will usually pick something else first (such as Alchemy).
Last edited by Haldurson; Jul 26, 2013 @ 6:24am
Mr Yaotubo Aug 1, 2013 @ 10:16am 
Trans dimensional dodge as far as i know can bug the game out.
Theres a few skills that is actually the reason people loose their characters because they dont understand how they work.
So i agree that some skill trees are only somewhat usefull unless one builds a solid synergetic build around a way to play.

I usually go with fleshcrafting as one of my skills, as that gives me summons for floor 1-2 and also a self heal.
After floor 3 and beyond its AoE attack can be useful.
But as for grinding levels on floor 1, i consider the zombies excellent meat-shields and together with flesh-knitting its a good solid starter skill to get alot of grinding done.
The only issue is some enemies added by mod(s) that destroy summons, but other then those (and one should have a backup plan anyway) its fine.
Last edited by Mr Yaotubo; Aug 1, 2013 @ 10:18am
Haldurson Aug 1, 2013 @ 11:07am 
Originally posted by Moe moe kyun (aka Mryaotubo):
So i agree that some skill trees are only somewhat usefull unless one builds a solid synergetic build around a way to play.
If you are really good at the game, and are always thinking and playing carefully (and have a bit of luck) you can pretty much win with (almost) any build. Sufficiently good gear, maybe supplemented either with encrusts or krongings, plus sufficient potions and/or fungi, and/or bolts/thrown weapons can (sometimes) make up for deficiencies in a build.

But if you are not coming from your 6th win on Going Rogue with Permadeath, have not demolished Vlad Digula and the hordes of Diggle Hell, and are not ready to pursue victory with a completely random build, then Synergies are incredibly important.

That said, don't sweat dying. If you try something and it doesn't work, try something different. But keep in mind that sometimes you have to change your play style to fit your build, or re-prioritize how you level up your skills, or simply have sufficient luck to last long enough for a build to come into its own.

If you are having problems with your build, ask questions, check out other people's builds, check out the community skills project (which I've linked in another thread), post your builds and ask for advice, and so on. There's no such thing as a useless skill, once you understand what that use is.
[PERRA] Glidder Aug 1, 2013 @ 12:43pm 
I strongly recommend you to try "Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead".
Haldurson Aug 1, 2013 @ 1:44pm 
Originally posted by PERRA Glidder:
I strongly recommend you to try "Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead".
I tried an early build of it (probably way too early of a build because it really wasn't all that comprehensible at the time). I'm not sure how ready it is for prime time just yet, but I'll give it another look.

It recently had a succesful Kickstarter campaign. In any case, this probably belongs in a different thread.
OrangeMade Aug 3, 2013 @ 12:31am 
I've a random build with Vegetarianism in it that I'd prefer not to have. Generally the animal monsters don't attack, but there are times when I'm surround by diggles who won't let me move!

Still the penalty for hitting an animal are extremly severe.

Fortunately the randomizer also gave me some skill trees that do compensate for it a bit. That one math/magic tree with a limited random teleport that can help as it's first level. The other is the mushroom skill tree, as I am not penalized when the Summoned Slime kills animals. Later on that may be an issue when I finally have to level the Vege tree up, but it works for now.


I agree that if you figure out what you are doing, it will be hard to find a single skill that is not useable. That doesn't mean you want to use them in the end, either.
Haldurson Aug 3, 2013 @ 10:16am 
Originally posted by OrangeMade:
I agree that if you figure out what you are doing, it will be hard to find a single skill that is not useable. That doesn't mean you want to use them in the end, either.
That's more about preference than actual quality. And I have to admit that a lot of people don't like the skill. But others find it incalculably valuable. Here's the discussion of it in the Project: Community Skills Guide thread: http://community.gaslampgames.com/threads/project-community-skills-guide.3033/page-18

And here's an idea from the thread:
"Cool trick with Veganism and Magic Law:
You can use the "Rune of Objection" ability to give your Fallen Vegan debuffs to your enemies. A great way to debuff a unique moster while healing at the same time!"

The passive stat bonuses alone from the skill are really good. You just have to learn to curb that love of cheese omelettes. Or use alchemy to make yourself a fruity staff (or whatever it's called), to have an endless supply of vegan-friendly food.
Last edited by Haldurson; Aug 3, 2013 @ 10:19am
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Date Posted: Jul 26, 2013 @ 2:54am
Posts: 7