madsen Jun 21, 2013 @ 11:02am
Bad Manners --- or: How to (Technically) Never Lose Another Game
Don't want to lose a game? No problem, just don't finish it. Seriously, I played a guy, QuixoticKoala, who had a really bad turn 1, and he never took his 2nd turn. That was on March 20 2013. The game still shows in my active games though --- and when I checked his profile, he had a crap-ton of unfinished games. Obviously he'd rather be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ than take a deserved loss.

Games really, really need to be auto-forfeited if a player hasn't taken his turn for X days. Did I mention that I also have an active game from May 29 2012 hanging around? Another thing would be to maybe limit the amount of active games a person can have, so people can't start a new game before they've finished enough to get below the threshold. 50 games at once should be more than enough for legitimate players.
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KronOS Jun 21, 2013 @ 12:01pm 
Yeah, that's on the dev's agenda like forever. But recently talked to the corresponding dev on IRC and he said that it *will* come in a couple of weeks. So let's hope that this couple of weeks is over soon...
madsen Jun 21, 2013 @ 12:04pm 
I think I mentioned that I had a really old game hanging around to one of the devs on IRC like 4 months ago, and I'm pretty sure he said two weeks back then too. (That was before I discovered that people actually use it as a way to not lose games.) Anyway, hopefully they'll implement some time in the not-too-distant future. :)
Innocent Rage Jun 28, 2013 @ 5:06am 
I'd like a full list of people that stop at turn 7. If Steam is one of the weird game companies that takes a stance on "name+shame" - I'm sure there are other ways to pass on the message that these people suck. I may just start posting screen shots of my current games that are stuck on turn 7 without need for my next input.

I'm compiling my own list of people that I won't even bother playing with because they suddenly stop at turn 7. I don't really care about wins and I have more losses than such (no one but me suicides their rocket launchers or jumps on their own grenades vs a full team of opponents plus I finish games I start) but it just disappoints me seeing people avoid losses to protect their ego.

An Edit - I was looking at my other INactive games and yeah. Everyone that sees my good turn 1-3's just stop playing even if they still input turns on other matches we have. So, my list shall now expand...
Last edited by Innocent Rage; Jun 28, 2013 @ 5:29am
madsen Jun 28, 2013 @ 10:37am 
I'm pretty sure Valve (the company that runs Steam) don't really care --- they have nothing to do with Frozen Synapse expect that they distribute it. That being said, I don't see any reason to start compiling lists of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s, because such a list would most likely be infinitely long.

I talked to one of the devs on IRC a couple of days ago. This time the auto-forfeit was only a week from completion. He said that it'll work retroactively, so some people are going to get a lot of wins suddenly, because all the old stalled games are suddenly resolved. I'm hopeful that it's actually coming soon, even though they've said "a couple of weeks" for over a year, at least it sounded like they were in the process of testing it. I also requested a 'gg' button, so it's possible to just give up instead of being forced to fight a losing battle, but that's apparently not all straight-forward to implement. (I don't know why though, seems like it's a pretty simple thing to do, but they probably have their reasons.)
Don'tCallMeShirley! Jun 30, 2013 @ 12:19pm 
If what you say is accurate Madsen, I will be the happiest man ever. I'm ranked somewhere around 129 in FS, and I start a TON of games that people just decide to quit after a couple turns or, sometimes, sooner than that; many people never show up to play at all. This is the second part of the same problem.

I wish there was a way people could decline to play a game, period. If there is going to be a forfeit implementation (which excites me greatly), one should have the option to decline a challeng in the first place. That way a person wouldn't end up with so many games that never even got started but which sit in the list forever. It certainly is not fair to forfeit someone for not making moves within a time period if they simply didn't want to play a match at all, for whatever reason. Actually, it shouldn't be a decline, but matches should have to be accepted, that way a person who never plays and doesn't have email notifications won't be forfeited for never showing up.

With all that said, if a person accepts a challenge, then move once, or 7 turns, any lack of game completion on their part should be a forfeit, and I say make it at double points for the victor (of course I feel that way; damned Elo system kills me! haha).





madsen Jun 30, 2013 @ 1:31pm 
Oh, I completely forgot that I wanted to mention a "decline challenge" option to the devs because it really doesn't make sense to not have it.

Btw, the in-game IRC client connects to the channel #mode7games on irc.maxgaming.net (port 6667, the default for IRC). I say this because I like to use a real IRC client as opposed to the in-game one which is really annoying. There's usually at least one or two people from Mode7 there, so if you want to get in touch with them, that's probably your best bet. (They fixed my email troubles in literally two minutes.)
[Moop] coderfreak14 Jul 1, 2013 @ 1:27pm 
Yeah, this is one of the most annyoing things I run into when playing FS. I will always finish my games regardless of situation and I expect others to have the same courtesy. I've begun to try to establish 3 day turn limits in each of my games, but it only works when people accept... Those are probably the ones who wouldn't dodge anyways, though...
Don'tCallMeShirley! Jul 1, 2013 @ 3:30pm 
I don't see it here--might be in another thread?--but Kronos said the two-week timeout is in effect now. I can't tell, but we'll see.
KronOS Jul 1, 2013 @ 11:48pm 
The two-week timeout is implemented and active since last friday (got me three places up the ladder in the rankings :)).
madsen Jul 2, 2013 @ 10:52am 
Awesome! Now we just need the ability to decline challenges and gg out of games and I'd be out of things to ask for. :)
Don'tCallMeShirley! Jul 2, 2013 @ 11:32am 
Kronos, meant to ask...how can we tell it has been implemented. I had about 3000 games just sitting around doing nothing. What was the effective date from a "grandfather clause" perspective, do you know? Do you receive a notice or do games just go on the match history as a "win?" Whatever you know I'd love to hear. Thanks sir.
madsen Jul 2, 2013 @ 11:39am 
I'm assuming it'll start counting from the day that it was implemented, because I still have a game from May 29 2012 in my active games list. If not, then it doesn't seem to be working properly.
Don'tCallMeShirley! Jul 2, 2013 @ 12:19pm 
Kronos said his rank had gone up due to the implementation of the time-out, but mine didn't move and I still have, literally, about 50 or more active games showing, dating as far back as 2011! If it only applies to games as of the active date for the change (this past Friday), then Kronos should not have seen an effect. If it is retroactive, then we all should be. Anyone have an idea what's up?
KronOS Jul 2, 2013 @ 11:27pm 
It should affect all games, no matter how old they are. For me, all my games (I started to play about 3 months ago) abandoned by my opponent count now as a win towards me (checked this).

Note that the two-week timeout does currently *not* delete games that have been abandoned by both players or never started. That is, I guess all the old games you guys have lying around fall into one of the following categories:


(1) One of the players did not commit his first turn --> this is the way to decline a game in Frozen Synapse, so this will not count as a win for you.

(2) Both of the players did not commit any turns in a later round --> i.e., both players essentially agreed not to play the match.
(I'm not too sure about this one, as I do not have such games; it may be that such games are affected by the two-week timeout and count as a draw.)


If this is not the case I guess you stumbled upon a bug :).
Last edited by KronOS; Jul 2, 2013 @ 11:27pm
madsen Jul 3, 2013 @ 1:54am 
@KronOS, thanks! That makes sense. The game I've got lying around from May 2012 never saw a first turn from the other guy, so I guess that's why it's still around.

Btw, there is another reason why people may not submit first turns --- at least in hostage mode. It's possible to have the hostages spawn inside a wall (like so: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=155463594). When you try to submit your turn, you're told that you can't do so until you make sure none of your guys end their turn inside a wall (like so: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=155463607). However, you can't give the hostages orders on the first turn...
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Date Posted: Jun 21, 2013 @ 11:02am
Posts: 20