Brigand01 Jul 11 @ 11:04am
Warmonger
How do I get the other civilizations to go to war with me so I can avoid this diplomatic penalty? I understand that in a domination game it is inevitable but I try not to forcibly take cities, I never completely kill a civilization off and what I don't understand is this:

I know I've seen the better players go to war without severe penalties but I don't understand how you buy a civilizations temperance without giving them money which is obviously a terrible idea.

So in short: How do I convince another civilization (or more then one) that someone is a problem, and we should kill them?
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TheGaleRider Jul 11 @ 11:12am 
Originally posted by Brigand01:
So in short: How do I convince another civilization (or more then one) that someone is a problem, and we should kill them?
You mean like how the AI asks you "_______ is a threat to the stability of this world. The time has come to deal with them once and for all. Will you assist me in this effort?" to declare war on some guy?
Go to the leader diplomacy screen. Click Discuss. Click Shall We Declare War Against... Click the leader you want to start a joint war with. See their reply. If that doesn't work, try and bribe them into declaring war (in the trade screen). If they accept the bribe, then they will declare war but they won't call you in.

EDIT: Only answering this question, not justifying that the AI will actually do anything or that you will be scot-free of warmongering.
Last edited by TheGaleRider; Jul 11 @ 2:53pm
zxcvbob Jul 11 @ 11:24am 
Pick someone that they probably hate already. It *really* works well if the target AI has captured a few CS's. Denounce them first and see if anybody else does too.

Only capture the capital. You can pillage everything else, but don't actually take it. Then (if there is one) capture a previously-conquered CS and liberate it.

After 10 turns, if you have killed a lot of their units and threaten to take their new capital, the AI may offer you a peace deal where they give you a city or two. There's no penalty (I don't think there is any) for taking a city that way.
ajhartman65 Jul 11 @ 11:55am 
Embrace your inner warmonger! But seriously, easiest way to avoid warmonger penalty is to bribe other civs to fight your opponents for you. Do not use the "shall we attack X" option, you will still get a penalty for starting the war. If somebody else asks you to go to war, do not capture any cities (you may take the one your partner had his eye on and then he will covet your lands and denounce you even though he asked you to go to war with him against opponent X). Even if your opponent has captured city states, if you take the cap you will get a major warmonger hit, so you need to liberate as many CS as you can to erase that hit and do not capture anything else. Like zxcvbob said, make sure you take the cap before you liberate any city states, this way the liberation bonuses will cancel out the major hit for taking a capital.
Thanter Jul 11 @ 1:44pm 
That usually only works against AI who are warmongering and generating a lot of hate on their own. I seldom get AI to agree with "Shall we declare war against?" It usually takes a hefty bribe using the declare war option in the trade window. And that's just useful for making your enemy fight two fronts since you have to declare yourself.

I've seen people state that you don't get the war monger malus by entering war with other civs. But that hasn't been my experience. It might minimize with the civ you join, but they probably wouldn't have cared if you went solo, since they didn't like the offending AI in the first place.

Regardless of how you go to war, you will always get penalized for taking cities. I also question the information that cities given in peace deals don't count as conquests. Again, not my experience. But no data, so it may be true.

The best way to minimize it is to create relations where the AI is willing to overlook it. Or ensure that you have a strong enough internal economy to ride out embargos. If they won't overlook it, that just moves them up the menu. Nom nom nom...
Last edited by Thanter; Jul 11 @ 1:46pm
TheGaleRider Jul 11 @ 1:48pm 
Yeah, it's really hard to not rack up a warmonger penalty when you want to just wipe out somebody. I like to befriend everybody, so that they will overlook some warring, but even then you still might get backstabbed.
zxcvbob Jul 11 @ 2:22pm 
If you bribe an AI to declare war on another, do you have any assurance that they will actually fight? They might just send one sacrificial spearman or archer into battle, or maybe not even that.

I've had 2 AI's DW me at the same time (Montezuma and Gandhi) and neither would even discuss peace until 10 turns later, but only Monty did any fighting at all. (I'm not sure which one instigated it)
TheGaleRider Jul 11 @ 2:51pm 
Originally posted by zxcvbob:
If you bribe an AI to declare war on another, do you have any assurance that they will actually fight? They might just send one sacrificial spearman or archer into battle, or maybe not even that.
Of course not. Experience tells you that they will just sit there and then in 30 turns they just White Peace.
I have a related question: can you make someone declare war on you by making a defensive pact, then forcing the AI to declare war on them? or will the defensive pact evaportat?
ajhartman65 Jul 11 @ 11:32pm 
Originally posted by NCC-1707 Captain James T. Kirk:
I have a related question: can you make someone declare war on you by making a defensive pact, then forcing the AI to declare war on them? or will the defensive pact evaportat?
Interesting question....
This would be a tricky situation, since technically if you bribe somebody to DoW on your partner for the defense agreement, it means you are paying them to attack you by default. Usually i bribe with luxuries over time, so if this worked the civ getting bribed to DoW would end up with nothing since as soon as I was called in to honor the defense pact the trade would end. I must start a new game immediately and try this!!!!!!!!
Last edited by ajhartman65; Jul 11 @ 11:33pm
Teksura Jul 12 @ 12:02am 
I thought that a Defensive Pact meant that if an AI tries to declare war against your ally, then you automatically declare war against them. It shouldn't be forcing the AI to also declare war against anyone else.
Twelvefield Jul 12 @ 12:29am 
Originally posted by TheGaleRider:
Originally posted by zxcvbob:
If you bribe an AI to declare war on another, do you have any assurance that they will actually fight? They might just send one sacrificial spearman or archer into battle, or maybe not even that.
Of course not. Experience tells you that they will just sit there and then in 30 turns they just White Peace.

Sometimes, though, a bribed Civ will go completely ape for hundreds of years. It's a crapshoot, but the odds are better than Vegas.
Last edited by Twelvefield; Jul 12 @ 12:29am
Sir Slasher Jul 12 @ 1:43am 
pay ai togo war then join war your self
madkono Jul 12 @ 11:23am 
haven't played a bame where almost everyone, hated everyone else!!! make def pacts with your friends, and wait!!!
Thanter Jul 12 @ 11:37am 
Originally posted by Teksura:
I thought that a Defensive Pact meant that if an AI tries to declare war against your ally, then you automatically declare war against them. It shouldn't be forcing the AI to also declare war against anyone else.

Yes, Defensive Pacts only trigger war when a third party declares war. If either member of a defensive pact declares war it does not drag the other members into the war. In fact, the defensive pact expires and has to be renewed if a member declares war on a third party.

The question was if bribing a third party into going to war would trigger the defensive pact. Essentialy bribing the AI to go to war with you when they decced your partner.

I'll be testing this, but I wouldn't use it myself. Clever but cheesy.
Teksura Jul 12 @ 11:48am 
No, the question was if bribing an AI to trigger the defensive pact causes them to declare war on you (thus making you avoid the warmonger penalty for declaring war against them), or if it made you declare on them. That's why the answer was describing why it won't do any good at all if you're still considered to be the one declaring war.
Last edited by Teksura; Jul 12 @ 11:56am
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Date Posted: Jul 11 @ 11:04am
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