wundertunge Feb 27, 2013 @ 9:13am
Bioshock is to Rand as Infinite is to...?
I'm curious. It would be easy enough to go out and pick up some Ayn Rand if you wanted to go more in-depth into the philosophies and ideas into Bioshock. Does anyone have any ideas about what kind of literature (specifically) influenced Infinite?
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-> VERY SERIOUS INDIVIDUAL <- Feb 27, 2013 @ 9:14am 
Christopher Columbus was clearly an inspiration for the name of the city.
Follower Feb 27, 2013 @ 9:21am 
I'd guess Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" or any of the writers on "American Exceptionalism"
Matthew Fawkes Feb 27, 2013 @ 11:12am 
Originally posted by Don't read this:
Christopher Columbus was clearly an inspiration for the name of the city.

err...not sure if you're being serious or funny but if you google 'Columbia', that is actually the name of the female personification of America. :3
-> VERY SERIOUS INDIVIDUAL <- Feb 27, 2013 @ 11:21am 
Originally posted by Matthew Fawkes:
Originally posted by Don't read this:
Christopher Columbus was clearly an inspiration for the name of the city.

err...not sure if you're being serious or funny but if you google 'Columbia', that is actually the name of the female personification of America. :3

Christopher Columbus wasn't female, silly.
wundertunge Feb 27, 2013 @ 11:36am 
Columbia was apparently the name people used for America, just another name for it.
Never Feb 27, 2013 @ 11:59am 
Bioshock is to Rand as Infinite is to George Orwell, I find. Haven't played it obviously but I see some passing similarities to 1984. In the 15 minute demo, around 7:50, the guy being forced to admit to crimes that he didnt do over the projector being the biggest one. The general vibe of Colombia - totalitarianism masked as patriotism, being another.
Never Feb 27, 2013 @ 12:08pm 
There's also a review floating around youtube that digs into the hipocrosy and contradictions of Bioshock's borrowed philosophy and themes. Ken Levine got a little too up his own ♥♥♥ when it came to Andrew Ryan and trying to tie in Rand's ideas. I'm sure his intentions were good, though. There aren't enough Kens in the video game industry
[Lift+] Spaceman Feb 27, 2013 @ 1:43pm 
No idea... I'd be interested in it myself. Word to anyone attempting to read Rand because they enjoyed Bioshock: It's heavy as hell, good luck!
That Guy Feb 27, 2013 @ 6:09pm 
Spoiler alert. This is a long post about 1984 and its similar themes to Bioshock philosophy.

As the last posters said; Bioshock: Infiinite is probably a mix of "1984" and the book Follower mentioned, "Democracy in America," (which I haven't read but I have flicked through it and seen that it is partly a critique of the early Independent USA.) There were floating fortresses in 1984 and I think that connection is very strong there to Columbia's being a city/fortress in the sky as the back story relates Columbia repressing the Boxer Rebellion in China.

Bioshock Infinite will be a critique of political ideals gone against themselves, just like in Bioshock 1 in the way that Andrew Ryan's (Ayn Rand's) dream went horribly wrong. (I only JUST noticed that their names are practically an anagram, "wow, duh!")

The political doctrine gone wrong in 1984 is English Communism aka "INGSOC." It was a revolution that went global and as a result there were 3 great superpowers all lead by similar political doctrines but always fighting each other.

In the INGSOC government there were four ministries- 'Mini-love' (war/police etc.), 'Mini-plenty' (rationing), 'Mini-true' (falsifying records), and one other which I forgot. These ministries are actually the opposite of what their ministries are named after and what they are supposed to represent and provide.

The revolutionary INGSOC government was always telling it's people how much better they were than the rest of the world, Europa and Eurasia (the other 2 superpowers that they were constantly fighting.) In fact, each of these superpowers was worse than any country ever before it and each equally as horrible to its own people as they were to their enemies.

If Bioshock: Infinite contains a farcical government that contends that it is the happiest, most peaceful and most correct, whilst actually being the worst in all 3 of those areas, it is Orwellian. Or, if it has a Big Brother theme, another major theme of 1984, then it is also Orwellian.

Notice the similarities between the real USA and Bioshock Infinite; the founding fathers are quasi-worshipped and used to support arguments of politicians. These arguments are often interpreted in various conflicting ways. (Very similar to religious texts like the Qu'ran and the Bible and Shakespeare (he is holy to me) are interpreted in countless ways.)

The USA/Columbia sees itself as the newest and most revolutionary country in the world (revolutionary as in the most democratic and modern, not as rebellious.)

They revere the revolutionary goals of the founding fathers as gospel and it is constantly invoking their idealism which, it won't admit, is IMPOSSIBLE to attain. They will only fail and end up accomplishing what they tried so hard to avoid, (See the Russian Communist Revolution and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.)

If I could write this much about books whilst talking about a video game, it must a good game! I'm going to go play Bioshock again while I wait for this to be released, and beat it for the 4th time!

P.S. Fallout is another great game series with good literary influences/references.
-> VERY SERIOUS INDIVIDUAL <- Feb 28, 2013 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by Grandma Dave:
Bioshock Infinite will be a critique of political ideals gone against themselves, just like in Bioshock 1 in the way that Andrew Ryan's (Ayn Rand's) dream went horribly wrong. (I only JUST noticed that their names are practically an anagram, "wow, duh!")

You just blew my mind.
[BNI] Not Sexy And I Know It Feb 28, 2013 @ 12:35pm 
Originally posted by Don't read this:
Originally posted by Matthew Fawkes:

err...not sure if you're being serious or funny but if you google 'Columbia', that is actually the name of the female personification of America. :3

Christopher Columbus wasn't female, silly.
That's his point. He's saying it's not based off of Columbus.
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Date Posted: Feb 27, 2013 @ 9:13am
Posts: 11