Lack of fuel - stops the war.

[Didz]

I've been trying to complete the second Russian Campaign mission for days now on Normal difficulty and I'm rapidly running out of patience.

I can live with a certain degree of micro-management in a game, but this one seems to take it to the absolute extremes.

First of all I had to learn to loot every corpse and vehicle and horde all the ammunition I could scrounge in the tank, otherwise I discovered that my men simply stopped firing, and i was left to work out for myself that they had quite happily fired off their last clips of ammunition without warning me, and now considered their duty to the motherland fulfilled, even though they had another weapon slung on their shoulder with plent of ammunition. So, hours spent collecting and destributing ammunition.

Lovely, almost as much fun as Sims where if you didn't tell your avatar to go to the toilet they used to wet themselves.

Now I've discovered that my tank is running out of fuel. It hasn't warned me of this fact, and it's commander hasn't done anything to resolve the problem I just happened to notice a sliding scale counting down everytime it moved and worked out that it was the fuel.

Has anyone in the Russian Army got a jerry can....No!

Ok! So a Russian soldier has now just spent over an hour wandering around rechecking every German corpse just in case one of them had a jerry can, or even a lighter with some fuel in it. No Luck.

Found an abandoned German truck with some fuel in it, but there is no way of siphoning it out of the truck into the tank. Instead used the truck to speed up the search for of the battlefield for anything that looks like a fuel drum or a gas station.....Nothing.

Now the truck is almost out of fuel, These vehicles are very fuel inefficient,

I'm sort of stuck now I can't finish the mission without the tank but it is hardly going to make it to the hill on the fuel it has left, and there doesn't seem anyway to get more. It there some purpose to this sort of game mechanic?

Is it there to enhance the replay value perhaps?

e.g. you have to start the mission again because you used to much gas the first time.

[Lцсᶖаᶇ º¹]

Most tank commanders have a jerry can in their inventory which can be used to steal fuel from abandoned enemy tanks. You will have to equip the jerry can and then move the pointer over the enemy tank, and the pointer will change into a "siphon" icon. Press LMB and see the commander siphon fuel... when done, move the pointer over your own tank, press LMB and the commander will then walk over to your own tank and refuel it. It does take a few times back and forth since the jerry can only holds 60 litres though...

Another tip is to find a empty 200 litre barrel... many maps have these laying around and these can be used in the same way as a jerry can, although they contain 200 litres of fuel instead of only 60 litres.

Just open inventory right click on gas canister >>>> Right click any vehicle that has gas >>>> Right click your tank/vehicle.

[Didz]

I read that on another forum, but I think the problem is that none of the inital Russian officers are tank commanders. They are infantry officers who have repaired and commandeered a damaged KV2, so neither of them have a jerry can.

I've also scourged the entire map looking for a 200 Litre fuel barrel but without success. If there was one it obviously got destroyed in the earlier fighting.

So, I'm sitting on the ford wondering what to do next. I'm loath to start the entire game again as it took days to get this far. But I've got just 35ltr of fuel left in my tank.

Incidently, I checked the fuel range of a KV2, and it was 150km's, but mine seems to only have 150m.

[Lцсᶖаᶇ º¹]

If your soldiers have any Vodka left you can try putting that in the fuel tank. Worth a shot...

[Didz]

Well judging by some of their antics when left unsupervised they must be well supplied with vodka, but unfortunately it goesn't appear in their inventory.

[Relnor]

Isn't the 2nd Russian Mission the defence one at the Train Station ? There's really no way to run out of fuel there. Perhaps you mean the first mission ? That's the one with the KV.

Anyway, if it's the one I think, I'm not sure how you're running out of fuel - Drive KV into village, kill everyone, drive past the ford and up the hill, kill everyone again. My guess is you spent too much time rolling around the village looking for stragglers or something.

Have you tried disabling Fog of War ? The game is much more enjoyable (if markedly easier ) without it imo, and you won't have to waste fuel looking for hidden soldiers. Plus, it's always fun to lob HE shells onto unsuspecting infantry from far away~

[Didz]

Yes, it is the KV mission, and I suspect you're right. I am using realistic fog of war, so I spent a long time hunting down hidden German infantry. However, it doesn't alter the fact that the Russian KV tank had an operational fuel range of 150Km, and I don't think I chased them that far even with all the too'ing and fro'ing.

I did actually try to complete the mission with the fuel remaing but ran out at the most embarrassing times, usually just as the last German tanks appeared. So after at least half a dozen attemps I've left the Russian offensive perched at the ford and gone off to do something more interesting.

I was interested in Men Of War because it looked relistic, but there is a fine line between realism and complexity just for the sake of complexity.

I'm afraid MoW just crossed the line from realism to ridiculous.

[Relnor]

You should try without Fog of War, it doesn't make the game trivial either, atleast not on other missions - the 1st mission is -supposed- to be easy since you get a KV that can't be killed by anything except a soldier sneaknig up on it with a grenade.

Should be able to finish it in no time without fog - I think you'll forgive the fuel nonsense after you have a look at the 2nd mission =p ( or you'll just go crazy and run away, but yah )

Incidentally, finishing that mission also unlocks the other campaigns, so there is that.

[Didz]

I might one day, but for the moment it's dropped off my 'must play' list. I like realism in my games, but the designers of MoW lost the plot somewhere and forgot that realism requires accuracy not just complexity.

I had a similar experience with Uncommon Valour a few years ago. That game had so much going for it, but the designers got confused between realism and complexity on that game to.

What finally forced me to walk away from that game was that the designers arrogantly argued that 'It isn't realistic for the player to be able to target his air strikes on specific targets. That decision would have been made by the local commanders on the spot, so all the player can do it choose a commander they trust to make the decisions.' Right! so that meant that my only dive bomber squadron was ordered to attack a local fishing boat instead of the ♥♥♥ carriers attacking Midway Island.

However, those same designers then decided that the player was responsible for ensuring that every can of corned beef was individually loaded and delivered. Effectively demoting the player to a crew chief in the merchant service.

The more one argued with them the more vociferous the designers became that this was realistic. Admirals didn't specify targets for their planes, but they did stack corned beef.

In the end it was best just to walk away and find something better to do.

[k|Aquila Mars]

Don't like it? Don't play it.

[Didz]

Yep! thats what I did.

[Crizyz]

I understand your annoyance by it (I got pretty annoyed the first time I ran out of fuel myself as well, luckily enough I tend to save often in most games), but I also understand the dev point of view.
That implementing a fuel system without anyone actually ever having to worry about it also takes away from the experience (for thea realism part, tanks were not magically not able to hit a target if the range to target exceeded 90 (?!) meters).

[Didz]

Well my issue as I explained above, was that it isn't realistic at all.

The KV had a maximum fuel range of 150Km not 150m, and even if the tank was running fumes when it entered the battle (which would have been an indication of gross incompetence on the part of the commissariate) then there would have been pre-defefined procedures in place to refuel it.

In practice, what this scenario demonstrates is a falacy that is becoming all the more prevalent in the strategy game market that 'complexity and complication' = 'realism'. Some strategy game companies honestly believe that by filling their games with trivia they can then claim them to be more realistic. In fact, for the most part it merely distracts from the gameplay and adds frustration for the player.

The worst example I've come across was 'Uncommon Valor', which not only pointlessly gave the pilot of every one of it's hundred of planes a name and seperate kill count, whilst refusing to allow the player to issues orders to them as to which target to attack. but also insisted on the player personally supervising the loading of every can of corned beef onto it's logisitic vessels, whilst not allowing them to direct the goals of its combat task forces.

That game found it's way straight into my circular filing cabinet after a few hours of play, as I have no desire to roleplay the challenge of being a Quartermaster Chief in the Pacific Campaign. This game has gone the same way, as if I wanted to play as a garage attendant I'd buy a game called 'Petrol Forecourt Manager'.

[Relnor]

I still maintain you're doing something horribly, horribly wrong, since I wouldn't run out of even HALF of the fuel I had by the end of the mission.

It just didn't even occur to me as an issue before this post.

[Eclipse22]

games great. ur just not good at it. rage quit first mission=bad at the game. you must have been star craft micro managing ur tank to run out of fuel in the first mission.

[Hilhorst]

You´re hunting down all the german soldiers, That is the worst thing you can do with a tank without fog of war disabled