is armor research worthless?

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

it just seems like it doesnt matter, my vets in powersuits still get 1 shot killed, i dont think ive seen any instance of any of my vets in power armor withstanding more than 1 shot, and these can come from low tier enemies like floaters and such

[Imperialus]

That's the RNG hating you, and one way that UFO defense is more difficult than TFTD.

Basically when you are hit, say by a heavy plasma it subtracts your armour rating from the damage. Anything over your armour punches through. Anything less is absorbed (though the armour takes some damage too).

What throws a wrench it it is the fact that every shot does between 0 and 200% of its listed damage, so a heavy plasma does between 0 and 230 damage. Now a power suit has 100 damage reduction on the front, and your soldiers typically have between 30 and 40 health so there is actually a reasonable chance they'll survive a shot to the front armour.

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

imperialus eredeti hozzászólása:

That's the RNG hating you, and one way that UFO defense is more difficult than TFTD.

Basically when you are hit, say by a heavy plasma it subtracts your armour rating from the damage. Anything over your armour punches through. Anything less is absorbed (though the armour takes some damage too).

What throws a wrench it it is the fact that every shot does between 0 and 200% of its listed damage, so a heavy plasma does between 0 and 230 damage. Now a power suit has 100 damage reduction on the front, and your soldiers typically have between 30 and 40 health so there is actually a reasonable chance they'll survive a shot to the front armour.

thats soooo dumb

but well, atleast the game in general is good, hope xenonauts has better damage mechanics

[Ante79]

Yea it seems to be pretty random. I even think weapons can do crit dmg. You can read more about it here http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Damage

From my experience armor helps, atleast sometimes, even personal armor, a soldier just got hit and took zero dmg. Altho a soldier can die in 1 hit as mentioned.

[Gimianax]

It doesn't matter the type of alien shooting, it matters what type of weapon is being fired. After maybe 6 or 8 months (just from memory) I think most aliens, no matter what type, will hold heavy plasma guns (aside from small launchers and blaster launchers). Heavy plasmas don't mess around. Point being, the best assault weapon to use against a human in armor would be a heavy plasma.

That being said, armor saves lives. Just from play alone I can tell you that. Power armor will take hits well from plasma rifles down. Even personal armor can save someone from a heavy plasma shot. One thing I think we can agree on is we would want our Commander to probably be in Power/Flying armor rather than no armor at all.

[Empiro]

Armor definitely makes a huge difference in UFO defense at least (aqua plastic armor in TFTD -- now that's useless). If you're unlucky, you'll still get killed in one shot, but I've seen plenty of soldiers survive a face full of heavy plasma and survive.

[Imperialus]

Empiro eredeti hozzászólása:

Armor definitely makes a huge difference in UFO defense at least (aqua plastic armor in TFTD -- now that's useless). If you're unlucky, you'll still get killed in one shot, but I've seen plenty of soldiers survive a face full of heavy plasma and survive.

Actually Aqua Plastic armour is better than personal armour. A sonic rifle does 95 damage with a range of 0 to 150%, so up to 142. A Plasma Rifle does 80 damage with a range of 0-200% so up to 160. Personal armour provides 50 protection. Plastic, 60.

Recruits have between 25 and 40 health. Lets go for the middle and assume our test subject has a health of 30.

This means that with Plastic armour he can take a hit doing up to 89 damage and survive with one health. He'll likely die next turn but whatever. With personal armour he can take up to 79 damage.

Both of these are under the 'average' range for the weapon they are getting shot by so that sucks, but it's important to realize that when the RNG picks a damage number it'll look at the entire range. With a plasma rifle, there are 81 results that will kill your soldier, and 79 that will not, so basically a 50/50 chance. With a sonic rifle there are 53 results that will kill the soldier, and 89 that will not, or almost a 60% chance of survival.

Also, don't overlook that the Plasma Rifle is capable of autofire plus a snap shot or 3 snap shots per turn, whereas the Sonic Rifle can only fire a maximum of 2 snap shots per turn. More crap in the air means your armour is likely to need to absorb more damage.

Your soldiers are actually more survivable in TFTD than they are in UFO Defense. What makes TFTD so bloody hard is that the aliens are so much more survivable than your soldiers. In UFO Defense everyone is basically a glass hammer, you will probably die in one shot, but you can be pretty sure whatever you are shooting at will do the same. When, as is the case in TFTD you're throwing the equivalent of wet Kleenexes at a lobsterman you're in trouble. Any alien in UFO defense with the exception of some nasty terror units like the Sectopod and Cyberdisk have a reasonable chance of being downed in 1 shot from a heavy plasma. Lobstermen take on average 2-3 shots from a sonic cannon, which has 1/3rd the ammo reserve, weighs nearly twice as much, has no auto fire, and takes almost twice as many TU's to fire.

[Empiro]

Your analysis is correct. However, in practical settings, you're often attacked from other sides than the front (especially when storming UFOs/Subs), where personal armor's extra protection there can make a difference.

Things like Sonic Cannons and Heavy Plasmas are in common use around the same time periods. Both weapons on average will kill your soldier, but with UFO Defense's wider damage range, you're more likely to get a lucky low damage roll.

It is true though, that in UFO Defense, if you both spot each other at close quarters, then a burst from your laser rifle or heavy plasma will generally kill the alien, while in TFTD, you'll shoot at a lobsterman, it'll survive, and then turn around and shoot you.

[DarkMyau]

Its really just a piece of mind thing. Yes your soldiers will be one-shotted. But flying power armour is very useful to get your soldiers in better positions.

[erick]

Armor can help and the flying armor is fun. Flying to the top of the biggest ships blasting a hole in the roof then going in to get the commander is a good tactic. The great thing about this game is you can take your own path and tactics. My brother likes to use smoke I never do. I will use incendiary rounds to light up night time battles. Also I like to take weak bravery soldiers (they are easily mind controlled) arm them with tazers and medi kits and place them out front as fodder and to capture aliens. Going through your soldiers stats is very helpful. Do not waste armor on the weak and low bravery soldiers.

[White Knight]

I was always a huge fan of never walking up to the front door. The blaster-bomb specialist back in the ship makes the hole precisely where I want it and my flying troops step into the most advantageous firing positions with plenty of time left over for shooting any survivors...lol

Of course, that is the part I remember...the dudes in jumpsuits getting their azzes handed to them is something I'd rather forget.

I think your no-armour policy might affect your recruiting numbers...or it should at any rate.

[erick]

Weak in bravery means dumb too.

[SKull]

The heavy armor also helps alot against explosions, which is a big problem if you try it with no armor. The grenade launchers are so nasty, but in power armor you can survive anything but a direct hit at least some of the time.

[erick]

I agree with you. I never bother developing the weak armor or weapons.

[Daddy Cum Cannon]

Nuclear Kangaroo eredeti hozzászólása:

imperialus eredeti hozzászólása:

That's the RNG hating you, and one way that UFO defense is more difficult than TFTD.

Basically when you are hit, say by a heavy plasma it subtracts your armour rating from the damage. Anything over your armour punches through. Anything less is absorbed (though the armour takes some damage too).

What throws a wrench it it is the fact that every shot does between 0 and 200% of its listed damage, so a heavy plasma does between 0 and 230 damage. Now a power suit has 100 damage reduction on the front, and your soldiers typically have between 30 and 40 health so there is actually a reasonable chance they'll survive a shot to the front armour.

thats soooo dumb

but well, atleast the game in general is good, hope xenonauts has better damage mechanics

Not really, it's just more realistic. Remeber these aliens have Plasma tech, remeber plasma burns threw mostly everything.

[Nuclear Kangaroo]

Squizznar The Craven. eredeti hozzászólása:

Nuclear Kangaroo eredeti hozzászólása:

thats soooo dumb

but well, atleast the game in general is good, hope xenonauts has better damage mechanics

Not really, it's just more realistic. Remeber these aliens have Plasma tech, remeber plasma burns threw mostly everything.

are we really going to argue "realism" in a game about aliens invading earth?