LuckyRedFox 25. Sep. 2013 um 11:42 Uhr
Skyrim and Choice
It's possible that the reason I'm replaying Skyrim yet again is that maybe I want to expect that my choice or say in a matter holds weight, holds meaning towards the end of a long adventure. Extra Credits started doing episodes on agency and the illusion of choice and I have to say, yes , I agree with them.

After defeating Alduin (where the victory felt hollow to me), killing Miraak and Harkon, everyone still treats me with a resounding MEH. I never join the Stormcloaks or the Empire because I'm rather tempted by Clavicus Vile's offer to kill off everyone so there'd be no one left to fight. Bam, no more fighting.

Did I catch Bethesda trying to create the illusion of choice but failing miserably? Or is it because there's a lack of consequence I'm detecting faintly? Does Skyrim have enough choice to make it feel like what you choose has agency?
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Major Moolah 25. Sep. 2013 um 11:50 Uhr 
Bethesda wanted to make a completely open game. Meaning that no matter what you did you could not screw up your playthrough. This also means that you cannot truly fail and so your choices do not ultimately matter. You can become the Arch-Mage who only knows the basic Novice spells and so on.

Skyrim is also so complex that even if you choose between vampires and Dawnguard or Empire and Stormcloaks, the quest mirror each other very much. This was to keep the number of variables in check, and to make the design workload less overwhelming.

So there are little choices and the outcomes are the same. Still a great game, but if you want hard choices with possible guilt then you should play something else. This is what I do, since other games try to do other things.
Lot Creator 25. Sep. 2013 um 12:18 Uhr 
Mods help, you can screw up compleately if you set the characters to mortal, then killing them, of course, why would you do that when you could potencially set the game off its rails and crash. Mods which add expansion, help somewhat, but do include the set off of being incompatible with some quests and mods.
H3X 25. Sep. 2013 um 12:45 Uhr 
I think Bethesda either made some poor choices in putting together the side quests or simply ran out of time to finish them, as the Mage's College especially is very very short, to give one example of a common gripe.. But even so, they all follow predefined arcs that were never designed to allow for multiple paths and outcomes at the end, same goes for the main quest, and so on..

Looking back on it, pretty much all the others were the same too though, there wasn't too much recognition of the character after completion of side quest lines or main quests in either Morrowind or Oblivion aside from the odd line of dialogue or reward for being a guild master (amounting to a weapon, spell, armor etc usually), etc.

Personally I play Skyrim for the sandbox gameplay and mods, as the choice based action that you refered to is a much more prominent thing in other games. It'd be awesome to see that kind of thing implemented in an open world game, but there aren't many potentials for that around (pretty much the only one being the Witcher 3, supposed to be out next year) probably on the basis that it's a massive amount of work to get it all to flow together as a coherent story when it can be manipulated as you progress through it.
Inferior Pinecone 25. Sep. 2013 um 16:17 Uhr 
Since the lack of impact of choices in Skyrim was one of the biggest concerns, I'm sure Bethesda will address it somehow in TES VI.
LuckyRedFox 25. Sep. 2013 um 18:08 Uhr 
Thanks for your input, Doom. It could be I was a little angry with Skyrim simply for the amount of imagination I was forced to come up with on the fly.

"Uh, yeah, so my parents passed away but left me with a decent inheritance. I decided to use that inheritance to take a trip to Skyrim since Cyrodiil is no longer safe to live in (damn those Thalmor). Uhm, okaayy, I wake up and the first thing I see is a big black dragon that just flew over and roared at me as it was flying north...aaaaannd there's alot of smoke coming from Helgen. Maybe I should jog over there and help the soldiers..............OH MY SHOR this place has been wasted badly. I don't - woah, I don't see many bodies - I hope there are survivors..."

In Morrowind I felt I really did something good (aside from gaining favor from the nicer of Daedric Princes, Azura), and I think Skyrim is a good game. Not a great one, but just good.

I have to go play Daggerfall now.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von LuckyRedFox; 25. Sep. 2013 um 18:09 Uhr
Brandybuck 25. Sep. 2013 um 18:58 Uhr 
Oh you've found us out! You've uncovered the secret! You were being led by the nose the whole time, no choice, no options, it was all Bethesda forcing you along. Damn, I thought the ruse would have held up a while longer.
Brandybuck 25. Sep. 2013 um 19:03 Uhr 
Here, let me rephrase that. You're adult enough you don't want to be led around like a child through a story, but still childish enough to whine when the game doesn't pat you on the head for defeating the boss.
SlowedWumbo735 25. Sep. 2013 um 20:28 Uhr 
Skyrim is great at being an open-world game, but terrible at being a RPG. Unfortunately, the previous Elder Scrolls suffer from the same problem. I find this odd because ohter Bethesda games, like Fallout 3, actually have branching dialogue and quest options. Why can't they bring that system over to TES?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von SlowedWumbo735; 25. Sep. 2013 um 20:28 Uhr
Brandybuck 25. Sep. 2013 um 20:57 Uhr 
Well you don't have that problem in Fallout 3, because once you save the wasteland the game is over. If you do Broken Steel, people still treat you like dirt. Fallout New Vegas is different though. It's broken in many ways, but they actually have a working reputation system. Hmmm, perhaps if Skryim ended the game immediately after you defeat Alduin, and play a ten minute cut scene, people will stop complaining about the lack of respect.

Imagine it: "And so the Lone Dovahkiin wandered off to Akavir and was never heard of again. Lydia picked up the pieces of her shattered life and moved on. Mjoll finally dumps Aerin and moves in with Aela. Etc., etc."

Oddly enough, so does Skyrim, but the complainers just want to ignore. Just now, in the past hour, I was addressed as Praefect by an imperial soldier, and Thane by a town guard. True, no one is holding parades in my honor, but I don't need that kind of stroking.
LuckyRedFox 26. Sep. 2013 um 9:55 Uhr 
Okay, I get it. Skyrim is a good game that's terrible at being an RPG. Bethesda needs to think harder on this after finishing their MMO.
LuckyRedFox 26. Sep. 2013 um 14:22 Uhr 
I blame the writing.
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