|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 10:52am
Game Company Greed and the Downfall of Gaming
So in the "News" section of this forum there is an interesting post by PC Gamer, covering an interview with the Obsidian games CEO. In this interview he claims that large Skyrim type sandbox games are a pain; and goes on to complain about paying the salaries of all his workers... You know... The guys that MAKE everything that his company sells.

Sooooo... According to Wiki, Skyrim alone sold 10 million copies at $50-$60 in the first 30 days of release. That's like half a billion dollars. How much money do these capitalist pigs need?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The hostile takeover of the gaming industry, by the giant corporations is what's destroying todays gaming. Everything they get their hands on turns into a bucket of crap. The moment they gained control over the big players in the industry, the focus of game companies changed from creating games, to creating profit.

Now it's just an industry that reaches into the next mans pocket.

/End Rant
Last edited by |Xвпп| Witt; May 24, 2013 @ 10:53am
Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
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Dr. Shocks . DO May 24, 2013 @ 11:08am 
I agree to an extent, but the problem with games like Skyrim, is that they take tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to develop/complete. Bethesda seems to be one of the few developers that is willing to take one such massive "SINGLEPLAYER" games [most companies are focusing on multiplayer, hoping for a big payout with online DLC, etc...].

I understand Obsidian is also a company that develops exellent singleplayer games, but without a massive backing like what Bethesda has [Bethesda is owned by Zenimaxx], then we are left with what Obsidian has produced the last handful of years [mainly cheaper, medicre games]. I can understand why Obsidian is frustrated, considering they are a smaller company.

However, I have no problem paying Bethesda game studios my money [if it is developed by Bethesda game studios, then I know it's good; don't confuse them with the publishing side: Bethesda Softworks].

Although, when it comes to companies like Activision-Blizzard, EA and some others, then I agree. They chugg out crap and expect us to payup without any reservations. At least Bethesda is willing to take YEARS to develop a great game; other big names just release their monthly crap-o-la and expect it to be a billion dollar franchise.


**EDIT**
I just read soem of that article. The CEO of Obsidian calls SKyrim and Fallout:New Vegas "low budget".
Now, while I agree New Vegas was low budget [I think Bethesda softworks payed them like 3-5 million to develop it]; Skyrim is a whole different beast.
New Vegas already had all the engine tools created for them. Skyrim was built from the ground up.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/20/obsidians-ceo-says-aaa-games-are-not-relevant-to-most-developers/
Last edited by Dr. Shocks . DO; May 24, 2013 @ 11:17am
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 11:22am 
Don't quote me on this... But I think EA owns just about every big name out there, at this point. Including Bethesda, Bioware, and Blizzard.

Right around 5 years ago, there was a HUGE buyout of all the big players. They were doing it in secret at first, where.... (And I don't know how this went down, so the following is just an example) ...Bioware aquired Bethesda but kept the name, then another company aquired Blizzard, then that company merged with Bioware. At the end, EA scooped up nearly everybody.

Right after this happened, the quality of new releases took a nose dive.

Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
However, I have no problem paying Bethesda game studios my money [if it is developed by Bethesda game studios, then I know it's good; don't confuse them with the publishing side: Bethesda Softworks].

Right... Two companies under the same label that do completely different things.

Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
Although, when it comes to companies like Activision-Blizzard, EA and some others, then I agree. They chugg out crap and expect us to payup without any reservations.

I once purchased an EA game that didn't even work. Period. "The Saboteur" No patches either. Customer support offered me a $5 coupon for my next EA purchase that probably wouldn't work...

Ever since then I won't touch any game with an EA label. The only exception to that rule was for Mass Effect. (And I probably wouldn't have made that exception had it not been a Bioware game.)

PS - I'm sure Skyrim cost many 10's of millions to produce. Perhaps it cost a hundred, or a hundred-fifty million. But that still means they cleared $350 million in profits in the first 30 days. If they are complaining about that, I'll play them the worlds smallest violin. =P Greedy Bastages!
Dr. Shocks . DO May 24, 2013 @ 11:30am 
^^^^^
No, Bethesda is owned by Zennimax Media [they own Id (Quake, Doom, etc..) and Arkane (Dishonored, Bioshock 2), and of course Bethesda].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 11:35am 
Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
^^^^^
No, Bethesda is owned by Zennimax Media [they own Id (Quake, Doom, etc..) and Arkane (Dishonored, Bioshock 2), and of course Bethesda].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

As I said... I'm not sure in what order it all went down, or which company bought whom. but there was a huge consolidation.

Who owns Zennimax? Who owns that company. It's a little known secret, but the true ownership of large corporations is extremely hard to trace. Even for those who work on Wall Street.

"It's a big club, and you ain't in it!" ~ George Carlin
Dr. Shocks . DO May 24, 2013 @ 11:37am 
Zenimax is the parent company; no one owns them.
Although, I can partially agree that Zenimax could be heavily influenced by their creditors [loans, investors, etc..] to take specific actions on games.
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 11:41am 
Every company is owned by somebody or some family.

Follow the chain of ownership of any string of large companies long enough and it always goes to the same place. A group of around 140,000 individuals. These are the rich elite. The top 0.2-0.3% Their wealth is staggering. They make the star pitcher of the New York Yankees look like a pan handler.
Last edited by |Xвпп| Witt; May 24, 2013 @ 11:43am
Dr. Shocks . DO May 24, 2013 @ 11:48am 
Unfortunately it is becoming that way in the US [companies consolidating into larger companies; and decreasing competition], but like I said, Zenimax Media is not owned by any other company.

It should be noted that Zenimax Media is a PRIVATE company. What does that mean? It means there are no stock holders, no dividends to payout, no reason to grow ever larger like a cancerous growth that EA and Activision-Blizzard have followed [both of which are public corporations]. Zenimax is a Private company, not a PUBLIC tradable corporation.

Another PRIVATE company that is well known [and well liked] is Valve [anyone know of that platform called STEAM?]. Anyways, they have the same structure and have no "boss" to answer to since they are not a publicly traded corporation.
Last edited by Dr. Shocks . DO; May 24, 2013 @ 12:08pm
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 11:51am 
Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
Although, I can partially agree that Zenimax could be heavily influenced by their creditors [loans, investors, etc..] to take specific actions on games.


Correct... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that stock ownership is company ownership. But the primary mechanism of stock ownership is to allow private ownership of a public company to be largely anonymous. This is one of the reasons why tracing the chain of ownership is so difficult.

In the end, YOU are the one that works for a living. YOU are the one that knows how to pick up a hammer and drive a nail. YOU are the one that makes and produces everything that humanity wants and needs.

THEY produce nothing... They just take, and always want the same thing... MORE.

"The gold mine owner does not mine the gold, drop the shafts, or scout the land. But by some strange alchemy, all the gold belongs to them." ~ Big Bill Haywood
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 11:58am 
Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
It should be noted that Zenimax Media is a PRIVATE company. What does that mean? It means there are no stock holders, no dividends to payout, no reason to grow ever larger than a cancerous growth that EA and Activision-Blizzard have followed [both of which are public corporations]. Zenimax is a Private company, not a PUBLIC tradable corporation.

Fair enough... But Private trading of Public companies is only one of many mechanisms. (I find the term "Public Comapny" a little ironic as the only thing that is done publicly is the trading of stocks. The ownership is still private.)

Never-the-less, a private company still has owners. They still have investors, and they still have to answer to them.

Declaration of ownership is part of the chartering process. Somewhere, there is an office that files away corporate charters. The charter for Zennimax will contain the owner(s) of Zennimax at the time of the chartering of the company.

The profits go somewhere, right? They don't just go into limbo. =)
Dr. Shocks . DO May 24, 2013 @ 12:02pm 
I agree.

I believe it was President Truman that helped draft the West German Constitution [after WWII], and he explicitly put in the German corporate charter that the #1 obligation of the corporation is to act in the best interests of the country. Then, the #2 obligation is to provide profits for the shareholders.

Why do I bring this up? because Pres. Truman also wanted to get the corporate charter here in the US changed [which I believe would be a great thing]. As of now, the #1 obligation of a US publicly traded corporation is to provide increasing profits to the shareholders [dividend payouts]; ie: the "cancerous" growth I hinted to.

Overall, I think it is a great thing that some game companies are private: Valve, Bethesda, probably Obsidian, etc.... They get to focus on what they like, developing great games.

Last edited by Dr. Shocks . DO; May 24, 2013 @ 12:09pm
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 12:08pm 
Yup... You remind me of a quote I once heard. The quote itself stuck with me, but for the life of me I can't remember who said it.

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."
|Xвпп| Witt May 24, 2013 @ 12:13pm 
PS - As you brought up Germany.

A McDonalds in Germany is required by law to provide full medical benefits to any floor mopper they hire, from day one. They are required to provide a fully funded retirement plan, from day one. They are required to provide a generous minimum of annual vacation time, from day one.

If McDonalds doesn't like these rules, they can pack up their poison food and cheap plastic toys and go back to America.

Of course they don't do that, cuz McDonalds is pefectly capable of following these rules and still turning a profit.

The economist will tell you... If you walk down the street and see a penny laying on the pavement, stop and pick it up. It's one more penny than you previously had. There is no reason not to.
AmaDraque May 24, 2013 @ 1:29pm 
Originally posted by |Xвпп| Witt:
Don't quote me on this... But I think EA owns just about every big name out there, at this point. Including Bethesda, Bioware, and Blizzard.
EA owns Blizzard too? Well that only makes OP's post so much more relevatn, doesn't it? Nobody earns more money on making games that make little sense than Blizzard, so if they're 'a pain' because they do things too well it's hard to imagine what more the PC Gamer news poster wants.

Then again, maybe it isn't that hard to imagine. There just seems to be no end to greed once it really starts rolling with some people.

Originally posted by UW_Shocks -Qosmio-:
Although, when it comes to companies like Activision-Blizzard, EA and some others, then I agree. They chugg out crap and expect us to payup without any reservations.
Indeed. Yet some of the crap could have been so great. It's sad to think about.
Last edited by AmaDraque; May 24, 2013 @ 1:30pm
Jogon May 24, 2013 @ 4:54pm 
It is OK to bemoan the profits made by companies but do not forget you are playing this game on equipment and OS made by companies that also make huge profits, i.e. Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Dell, HP, ASUS, etc. etc. etc. And they make these profits by selling millions of units just as smartphone manufacturers do.
If they only sold a few units then they would go broke. It is the same with game developers. They do not know how many people are going to purchase their product until it goes on sale. But they still have to pay staff along with all of the other overheads like premises and power bills and all the other costs that go with running a business.
So when you complain about huge profits made by the makers of Skyrim are you also going to moan about the profits made by the companies that enable you to play the game??
Alkpaz May 24, 2013 @ 6:25pm 
According to IGN Skyrim is #7 in the top 100 RPGs of all time..

http://www.ign.com/top/rpgs/7

I found this while looking back for the first RPG reading the wiki about the history of RPGs. Decided to look for top chart RPGs and was VERY suprised. The Japanese call "western RPGs": "crap games" since they reply more in open-world exploration and less linearity in terms of storyline. This is where, I believe most people get confused and all out fights occur in which is an RPG and which isn't. "Dungeon" aka "Zork" was the first Computer RPG and was pure text driven. There wasn't character development in that game, nor was there "stats". This was more influenced by JRPGs like "Dragonquest" aka "Dragon Warrior".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game
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Date Posted: May 24, 2013 @ 10:52am
Posts: 20