Khyron 11 dec, 2013 @ 10:18am
Comparing elements of Skyrim to Baldur's Gate.
There are a few things in Skyrim that kinda suck compared to an old rpg like Baldur's Gate.

1) There are no dream items to save my money for. In BG right at the very beginning you could go to a shop and see legendary items for sale all the way up to $57,000. I remember it was a challenge to just to save up for that $900 plate mail. In Skyrim the shops are barren and I have no incentive to save my money to buy anything of importance. Apparently items only show up when you hit certain levels which is really a questionable design choice.

The same thing applies to armour. Right now I have elven armour and I have no idea if that is top of the line or how many light armours are better because none of the stores carry anything higher. Why not put all the armours in the store and let me work and save and dream about buying the highest end ones?

2) In Baldur's Gate when you meet a group of enemies they would quite often engage you in a little fun conversation first. Even if all the choices ended up in a fight it gave the enemies some personality and I always got a bit of a chuckle out of them. In Skyrim all the enemies simply charge you when they see you.

3) In BG when I defeated a tough enemy I was rewarded with 2 things. One - a large number of XP (ohhh 3000 XP, nice) and two - usually some sort of legendary, magical item. In Skyrim all I get is a bunch of rubbish and the completion of one of a hundred quests (I guess I get those dragon words but they hold no interest for some reason).

4) I miss clicking on a weapon or armor and reading a description about it's lore. In BG so many items had unique names and lore but with skyrim it's all spread sheet stuff (item name, damage, bonus value, weight).

Probably my biggest disappointment with Skyrim is the dialogue and quests. They really seem like they were written by 9 year olds for 9 year olds. Bethesda created this wonderful world but it's filled with so many immersion breakers that it just ruins the experience.



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danconnors 11 dec, 2013 @ 3:09pm 
Yeah, I remember getting hold of a +2 dagger with a whole sheet devoted to its history. Unfortunately, when throne of Bhaal came out they ruined it by having +3 weapons of all kinds for sale in every store (no descriptions). Kind of spoiled it all.

If you open your skill tree and look at the blacksmith tree, you'll see that the best items are all dragon made--armor and weapons. Next best is glass armor for light armor and Daedric heavy armor and weapons.

The great thing about this game is that you can eventually make those weapons and armors yourself. When I first saw that skill tree I said to myself, "I have GOT to make some of that stuff for me!!" Gives you something to look forward to and keep practicing the art for.
Hard Ontologist 11 dec, 2013 @ 3:51pm 
I would say, hold off criticism on Item #3. You're right about #1: shops don't help you dream, in that they don't show you what might be available to you later in the game.

You'll find, however, as you continue to complete quests and explore locales, that from time to time you will come across magical items, and sometimes very badass ones. The element of surprise in this kind of spontaneous discovery adds to the value of the item, I think.

Also, enchanting. Get into enchanting. If you don't want to count on shopkeepers or random dungeons to supply cool magical items, then make them yourself. My favorite weapons I forged and enchanted with my own two hands.
Mister Bubbles 12 dec, 2013 @ 1:59am 
The first quest I got after escaping Helgen was to go and take some crystal up a mountain for a god - I ended up being rewarded with a named, legendary sword as a reward.

XP Amounts cannot be compared since there's no relative frame of reference. An XP is not equivalent and nor are the XP / level scales.

How are numerous shops selling items for hundreds of thousands of gold pieces (whilst gold still retains its value as a precious metal?) and trading in legendary magical items more of an immersion breaker than simple merchants selling regular goods with limited capital?
maidofmanynames 12 dec, 2013 @ 3:42am 
I'm a longtime Baldur's Gate and D&D player and I have to say that nothing is quite like that series of games. The days where developers could produce monsters of dialog, story and character interaction like that are regrettably over. Having said that... Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls series have sprung from a very different gaming philosophy. Drawing direct comparisons is difficult and unfair. That said, I'll see what I can do to help explain and offer you options.

1. It is true that stores don't stock items for you to drool and save your pennies for. The items available is shops is tied to level, so you will only seem stuff that is appropriate to your level or slightly lower. For the really cool stuff you're expected to quest (eg. Daedric artifacts) or craft.

The crafting system is one of the things that sets Skyrim apart from Baldur's Gate's mechanics, for better or worse. The rule of thumb is that all the best stuff, is the stuff you make for yourself. As a previous poster said, the best armor, weapons etc. are generally higher in the appropriate skill tree. For more complete info, check out one of the wikis for Skyrim as they are great sources of information.

I should also mention that the Elder Scrolls has a huge body of lore behind it. Several games worth. Quite a bit of it can be found in the books in game but they are also available online via the wikis. There is where you will learn about historical artifacts. The ES games reward people who actively lore hunt in and out of the game. There are quite a few easter eggs from past games and lore quirks that you only recognize if you've kept up with your lore.

2. Dialog, characterization, NPC interaction and just RP in general, is Skyrim's weakness. Baldur's Gate is one of the games that still sets the standard for that and it's hard for any game to compare. Sadly, as I've said, companies just don't allow devs the time and resources to write so much story, anymore. I know that voice acting has also imposed its own constraints on just what can be done. That said, don't give up. Most generic opponents won't have much of a story or dialog, but more unique characters will.

3. As much as I love D&D, comparing that system to Skyrim's is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. I agree that the loot for end bosses can be a bit underwhelming. There are mods that add or improve loot but crafted gear still reigns supreme. You might also be interested to know that there are mods that convert Skyrim into a more D&D like game where quests give XP. I can't think of the mod's name but a Google search should be able to find it.
danconnors 12 dec, 2013 @ 3:38pm 
You also have to admit that Baldur's Gate gave you nowhere near the mobility of the elder scrolls games. If a mountain's in the way you can go around, under, or over it. You may be killed in the attempt, but hey, that's what makes the game great. If a river's in the way you can wade it, or, if necessary, swim it. You may drown or be eaten by unfriendly fish--great. If a fence is in the way you can jump it or knock it down. The owner of the fence may be annoyed. The game is a constant series of choices, with pros and cons to each choice.

Those orc look tough. If I try to fight them, they'll probably cut me to pieces. But if I run away, I'll feel humiliated. If I run away I'll have to sprint and zigzag or I may get an arrow or ice bolt through the back. Choices..choices..choices...I love it.
WarWise 12 dec, 2013 @ 3:48pm 
Skyrim is like GTA in a fantasy world.
Jouchebag 12 dec, 2013 @ 4:24pm 
Except the PS2 GTAs had infinitely more entertaining characters and plot.

Though, it is a lot like GTA4/5 in a fantasy world--which is to say: Mindless sandbox diversions with no incentive to continue plot lines.
wowszer 12 dec, 2013 @ 5:57pm 
The items available is shops is tied to level, so you will only seem stuff that is appropriate to your level or slightly lower.
It might be more appropriate to say its tyed to your smithing level. You could find stores with a few ebony ingots early, but could only store/hang on to them/sell. In one character I played, I really pushed smithing, was well ahead of fighting skills, hit level 80, people started selling ebony armor right away, as well as picking up more randomly. Of course no one was selling ebony ingots till level 90 when Daedric armor stated appearing.
SuperLotus97 12 dec, 2013 @ 6:07pm 
There were some great things about Baldur's Gate. I especially liked the voice acting. While I did manage to finish it, BG never really sucked me in like some of my favorite RPGs. While Skyrim has plenty of problems I enjoy it better than Baldur's Gate. The way I handle the imbalances in regards to items is a few things. First, I use a mod called Better Bartering which limits the amount of money I have so I can't grind crafting skills or buy every great enchanted item I see in the shops. Then I use loot mods that adds better enchanted loot to the game so adventuring is more exciting.

It's strange, but I don't remember that much NPC interaction or opportunity for roleplay in Baldur's gate. It's basically you talk to someone and then they give you a quest. And in both games you play the good guys fighting bad guys. I'm also not a big fan of the AD&D system. While Skyrim definitely lacks certain complexities found in various MUDs and pen and paper RPGs, AD&D was even more simplistic IMO. At least there are more opportunities in Skyrim to develop your character through the perks and skills system.
danconnors 12 dec, 2013 @ 7:01pm 
What Baldur's Gate did have was Minsc, who was probably the most interesting side kick I ever had. The only NPC ever who had a miniature giant space hamster as his travelling companion. Some of the conversations he had with, and about, the rodent are unforgettable.
acornco 30 apr @ 12:19pm 
ha, skyrim is so much like baldur's gate it makes me cry a little. combat mechanics and graphics aside, they are the same game.

weak merchant mechanics
non existent facial animation
tons of hard to find static side quests
a big open pre rendered world you can explore while ignoring the main quest
256 problems that can only be solved with one unchanging solution

but skyrim has horses... so bring me my torment and i will say good day to you sir.
Two Bears 30 apr @ 1:07pm 
I should preface by stating that Baldur's Gate and its sequel are my two favorite cRPGs of all time. TES has always been about lite RPG play; less about classes, abilities and traditional leveling and more about crafting, exploration and customization. Forgetting about the obvious distincitons of 3-D enviroments vs isometric view, the only thing the games share is that they are both computer-based RPGs. Their progression systems are different, their leveling mechanics are different, their loot and reward systems are different, relative character strength is different, enemy scaling is different; the list is near endless. In short, The Elder Scrolls are not Dungeons & Dragons.
Alkpaz 30 apr @ 6:57pm 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=196504901

havin a weird issue, since I have BG2 on both accounts, my alt first before my primary, it seems like it doesn't want to run on my primary.. gonna try running from my alt. :/
Alkpaz Busy Vapin 30 apr @ 7:02pm 
This sux.. BG2 EE is broken.. maybe due to messing with Skyrim n Oblivion.. :P
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