The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

View Stats:
Draughir Feb 27, 2014 @ 7:35am
Dual-Wielding. What's your take?
I clipped these from a locked thread I had posted in, before it went ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and started to become a flame war. Having very little to do with the original thread, I thought it would make for an interesting topic.

Originally posted by delta38:
i think modding is cool for this game since it gets pretty booring after a while and needs a ton of fixes - like WHY CANT i block with duel swords?????


I agree wholeheartedly. This is a flaw in many games where dual-wielding is allowed, and a bit of a pet-peeve of mine. You take a defensive penalty if you choose to dual-wield...which is utter crap. As a medieval re-enactor who dabbles with dual-wielding, I can tell you: The opinion that twin weapons is a purely offensive style is terribly flawed. Just as you have twice as much chance to deal damage, you have twice as much chance to block. There is an entire fencing-style based on dual wielding and the offhand weapon, usually a short sword or long dagger is primarily a defensive weapon. Is it as effective as blocking with a tower shield? No, of course not. However, it's a helluva lot more maneuverable.

azxcvbnm321 Feb 26 @ 5:18am
You can't block while dual wielding for gameplay balance reasons. Dual wielding is powerful enough, allowing blocking would make all other fighting styles so inferior that they would never be chosen except for role playing purposes.


I understand the balancing point. However, I disagree that dual-wielding is any more powerful than a fire ball, two-handed weapon, or a stealth kill that does 3-6x the normal damage. I understand a slightly decreased defense, because as I said, there's not much that's more effective at blocking than a tower shield. Not to mention weapon-blocks in this game can be broken through. Furthermore..I can block with a bow, smack someone with a bow, but not block with my offhand weapon? That's silly. Anyone who has used a bow should know that if you go hitting someone with it, or try to block with it; there's a good possiblity that said bow will shatter, due to the tension the string puts on it. For example, I love the show Arrow. Possibly one of my favorite comic book characters...up there with batman and wolverine. But here he is with a clearly custom bow, that likely cost thousands of dollars, and he's running around whacking people with it. Ok it's a custom job, probably reinforced, but at the very least, it's liable to knock the bow out of alignment. For someone who depends on accuracy and precision, this seems silly to me. (Ok all the assassins running around catching arrows is just as silly. After all it is based on a comic.)

That being said, I know it's just a game, and I love said game. One of the best in it's class. That doesn't mean it's not flawed. That's what mods are for ;)

And it is like I said above: The idea that dual-wielding is purely offensive, is well...offensive to me ;)
From my experience it's a very popular game style, and my favorite. Part of the reasom for that, I think, is well it's a very difficult style to master for real, which is why it was reserved for true weapon-masters. In games, you can pick up two swords and start swinging them like a pro right off the bat. And it looks really cool and badass! ;)
< >
Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Mantis Feb 27, 2014 @ 7:58am 
If you get SkyRe on nexusmods, it creates a perk in the one handed tree for dual wielding that allows you to " parry " enemy attacks if you can land a hit on them as they hit you. As far as blocking, I'm CERTAIN I've seen mods on there that allow for blocking as well.
Draughir Feb 27, 2014 @ 8:53am 
Blocking, parrying. Something. I like the idea of a perk in the skill tree that allows for either so you're not an expert right of the bat. I'll have to look into that. One of the funniest things that happened to me...I went to a larp...and as a medieval re-enactor in the SCA...let's say I left disappointed. They made me an NPC to wander the wilds and harry the players. They pointed me at a huge boffer(foam weapons for the uninitiated) weapon bin, so I chose twin hand-axes. Later I got into a fight with a player, they came at me with an overhead longsword stroke. I crossed the axes over my head, blocked the attack, then dragged the axes downward. I trapped the 'blade' with the axe-heads and disarmed the player. Who promptly threw a hissy fit and whined about it.
"You can't do that!!!"
"Um...I just did."
"You don't have a skill for that."
"I just did it, so clearly I have some skill. And a bit of luck too."
"But you need X skil, this skill and that skill to do that."
"I...see. So you're telling me that because I don't have a little slip of paper that has some skill denoted on it, that I can't do what I just did.?"
"Yes. You don't have a parry or disarm skill"
"So I stand here and let you hit me, instead of actually using the weapons I have in my hand because I don't have a parry or disarm skill?"
"Yes. You need to have the skills."
"Which I clearly don't have because I just disarmed you."
"Wah, wah wah. GM. Wah. Wah"
"I see." I handed him his sword "Here's your toy sword. And your helmet. Would you like a blankey or perhaps a ba-ba before you go back out to play with your friends?"
I dropped the axes on the ground and walked off the field. Haven't been to a larp since.
Nvidian Mar 29, 2014 @ 7:37am 
:)
BelphegorATS Mar 30, 2014 @ 5:59am 
Originally posted by Draughir:
Blocking, parrying. Something. I like the idea of a perk in the skill tree that allows for either so you're not an expert right of the bat. I'll have to look into that. One of the funniest things that happened to me...I went to a larp...and as a medieval re-enactor in the SCA...let's say I left disappointed. They made me an NPC to wander the wilds and harry the players. They pointed me at a huge boffer(foam weapons for the uninitiated) weapon bin, so I chose twin hand-axes. Later I got into a fight with a player, they came at me with an overhead longsword stroke. I crossed the axes over my head, blocked the attack, then dragged the axes downward. I trapped the 'blade' with the axe-heads and disarmed the player. Who promptly threw a hissy fit and whined about it.
"You can't do that!!!"
"Um...I just did."
"You don't have a skill for that."
"I just did it, so clearly I have some skill. And a bit of luck too."
"But you need X skil, this skill and that skill to do that."
"I...see. So you're telling me that because I don't have a little slip of paper that has some skill denoted on it, that I can't do what I just did.?"
"Yes. You don't have a parry or disarm skill"
"So I stand here and let you hit me, instead of actually using the weapons I have in my hand because I don't have a parry or disarm skill?"
"Yes. You need to have the skills."
"Which I clearly don't have because I just disarmed you."
"Wah, wah wah. GM. Wah. Wah"
"I see." I handed him his sword "Here's your toy sword. And your helmet. Would you like a blankey or perhaps a ba-ba before you go back out to play with your friends?"
I dropped the axes on the ground and walked off the field. Haven't been to a larp since.

Wow, that is hilarious. It's amazing how there are people who will follow specific rules of a certain game and try to convince you that certain skills are needed to perform the obvious, especially when the obvious is so easy to do that it requires no skills whatsoever.

My own opinion of duel wielding is the same as yours. It's so offensive that I don't find it to be really useful. There were some mods for Oblivion that allowed you to duel wield and block/parry at the same time, so I shouldn't think it to be unrealistic to incorporate such skills in a game like Skyrim.
jeffy Mar 30, 2014 @ 7:04am 
i found a mod on steam easy to install

it works perfectly, i can block with duel wield and it works with the block skill increase

it just randoms your lmb attack with both swords and leave r m b for blocking

all power attacks woork too
BelphegorATS Mar 30, 2014 @ 9:51am 
Originally posted by Dallas:
i found a mod on steam easy to install

it works perfectly, i can block with duel wield and it works with the block skill increase

it just randoms your lmb attack with both swords and leave r m b for blocking

all power attacks woork too

What's the name of that mod?
Draughir Mar 30, 2014 @ 3:35pm 
yes..name of mod please? :)
jhyric Mar 30, 2014 @ 5:25pm 
I tried a dual wield blocking mod, but I could never get it to work.

I guess it is whatever, though. Historically, there's never been too much advantage with using a weapon in each hand. Yeah, yeah, there's a dueling style that uses a second weapon, but there's a difference between men dressed in lace swinging around toad-stickers and real armed combat. With two weapons, you don't have the balance or control that a two-handed weapon would afford you, nor the defensive ability of a shield. Boffers don't really accurately represent the way weapons contact and slide on one another, so people using them can get away with ♥♥♥♥ that would get you killed with real weapons.

I suppose that's why I never dual-wield in games. Even when its effective, there are so many liberties taken with how characters can move with them that you know that the only way they are effective in the game is because it's a fantasy.

EDIT: I should note though that axes, on the other hand, are somewhat made for using one in each hand, and their shape makes them effective for grabbing and controlling other people's weapons.
Last edited by jhyric; Mar 30, 2014 @ 5:33pm
BelphegorATS Mar 30, 2014 @ 5:53pm 
Originally posted by tonyrayvick:
I tried a dual wield blocking mod, but I could never get it to work.

I guess it is whatever, though. Historically, there's never been too much advantage with using a weapon in each hand. Yeah, yeah, there's a dueling style that uses a second weapon, but there's a difference between men dressed in lace swinging around toad-stickers and real armed combat. With two weapons, you don't have the balance or control that a two-handed weapon would afford you, nor the defensive ability of a shield. Boffers don't really accurately represent the way weapons contact and slide on one another, so people using them can get away with ♥♥♥♥ that would get you killed with real weapons.

I suppose that's why I never dual-wield in games. Even when its effective, there are so many liberties taken with how characters can move with them that you know that the only way they are effective in the game is because it's a fantasy.

EDIT: I should note though that axes, on the other hand, are somewhat made for using one in each hand, and their shape makes them effective for grabbing and controlling other people's weapons.

So it seems that axes are superior in duel wielding than other kinds of weapons. After reading Draughir's post on the larp, I can certainly see how they would be the best weapons for a build focusing on duel wielding weapons in combat.
Draughir Mar 30, 2014 @ 6:06pm 
Originally posted by tonyrayvick:
I tried a dual wield blocking mod, but I could never get it to work.

I guess it is whatever, though. Historically, there's never been too much advantage with using a weapon in each hand. Yeah, yeah, there's a dueling style that uses a second weapon, but there's a difference between men dressed in lace swinging around toad-stickers and real armed combat. With two weapons, you don't have the balance or control that a two-handed weapon would afford you, nor the defensive ability of a shield. Boffers don't really accurately represent the way weapons contact and slide on one another, so people using them can get away with ♥♥♥♥ that would get you killed with real weapons.

I suppose that's why I never dual-wield in games. Even when its effective, there are so many liberties taken with how characters can move with them that you know that the only way they are effective in the game is because it's a fantasy.

EDIT: I should note though that axes, on the other hand, are somewhat made for using one in each hand, and their shape makes them effective for grabbing and controlling other people's weapons.

I should note that many Samurai didn't wear lace or carry 'toadstickers' and often wielded a katana in one hand and a Wagazashi(sp?) in the other. Advantage: Block with one weapon; attack with the other.

There is also Florentine style which utilizes a longsword in one hand, and short sword in the other. Which if I remember correctly, was incorporated in the pre-lacy era. I could be wrong about that, tho. Most representations I've seen have been with what appeared to be pre-renaissance long/short sword.

I will agree that there is less control when using two longswords, which is why most offhand weapons were a shortsword or a dagger while the primary weapon was a longsword. I certainly can't argue that boffer weapons don't accurately represent any medieval melee weapon.

Skirmishers were often used to flank the main battle and take care of stragglers and scouts. Typically lightly armored, wielding two weapons, usually shortswords, but sometimes a long and a short. Because you can't swing a broadsword when you're in the forest ;)

In my experience, however, twin axes seem the most effective dual-weapon choice. And by 'axes' I of course mean hand-axes or hachet-sized axes. I'd find it very difficult to believe that anyone, Conan or not could effectively wield two full-sized battle-axes.

There is no doubt that it is a style not intended for novices; which is why it was limited to veteran swordsman. Otherwise we'd see common footsoldiers wielding twin blades in every tapestry and painting from the respective eras.
Last edited by Draughir; Mar 30, 2014 @ 6:09pm
Skyrimnut Mar 30, 2014 @ 6:18pm 
I'm no expert in weapons, but when I played a dual-wielding build, I experimented with different types of combinations before I found one that was the right combination of speed and damage. For me, dual-wielding dawnguard axes in the game was best. I don't know if it's backed up by the actual weapon stats, but I had better control. With 3 words of Elemental fury and this combination I really didn't worry much about blocking, I was dealing a very fair amount of damage, not one-shots either, but enough damage to stagger the opponenet and hack n' slash to death.

This is a great discussion, by the way. I love learning how weapons actually work in the real world and it really makes you think about the lack of ability to block with dual-wielding.
Draughir Mar 31, 2014 @ 5:32pm 
I wouldn't call myself an expert either. Not by any stretch. More like an aficionado, with a lifetime of passion for anything and everything medieval...with the exception of plagues, feces-ridden streets, crusades, and men in lacy shirts poking eiach other with hot-dog skewers.
DoctorBoson Jun 27, 2014 @ 6:49am 
Originally posted by Draughir:
I should note that many Samurai didn't wear lace or carry 'toadstickers' and often wielded a katana in one hand and a Wagazashi(sp?) in the other. Advantage: Block with one weapon; attack with the other.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the grave, but this was burning my soul.

Having sparred with bokken several occasions, I can confirm that using a katana in one hand is nearly impossible, and sacrifices incredible amounts of power and control. On top of that, neither the wakizashi nor the katana were used to "block:" you never hold blades with those kinds of weapons because they were so fragile. They were used to deflect the blades of others, and you needed both hands to have the power and control to do so.

Otherwise, yeah. Game is game :)
Ill tell whyyou cant duel weild block in skyrim; CONSOLE. CONTROLS.
You have abutton for your left hand and right hand. Thats their control scheme. It translates seemlessly with console controls and mouse controls. Now how do you supose you add a block button without swaying from this uniform control scheme? They didnt wanna bother with it so they didint add it.

Simple Ja?
pedantic_roc Jun 27, 2014 @ 7:27am 
I like the idea of a primary weapon and a bladed - shall we call it a defender - in the other as a means of "deflecting" some damage. But somehow I can't see two slithers of steel being much defense against a crippling hammer blow. For that you NEED a shield and as so many broken shields have been unearthed irl I would imagine you needed to be quite lucky, too, in order to avoid major damage and, at the very least, to not be knocked over.
But, there's already plenty of questionable weapons in this game so I don't think it would have hurt to let us block say 25% damage while dual weilding even with console control restraints.

Edit: constraints? My grammar gets worse the older I get :P
Last edited by pedantic_roc; Jun 27, 2014 @ 7:29am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Per page: 15 30 50

Date Posted: Feb 27, 2014 @ 7:35am
Posts: 21