Outkin 2014년 2월 12일 오후 9시 44분
I just figured out why I enjoy skyrim over oblivion.
After spending the last three hours just MAKING a character in fallout, it hit me. I hate having to make choices about my stats. It kills the game for me, after researching the pros and cons of each stat, determining how much I can max out the important ones, and in the shortest amount of time....I've wasted countless hours NOT playing, and not enjoying myself when I do play.

When I start, I don't get to enjoy the questline, it's a mad dash to get the stats boosted up in time so I don't miss the extra 2 points from leveling up to fast. Alternatively, I do no research, and I'm not allowed to do anything I want. There was a perk I wanted....but I didn't get the required skills up, so I had to wait two levels to boost it up and buy a random perk I didn't care about, but by then, I had to choose between the skill I wanted and the next tier of perks....and it goes downhill from there.

Now, with skyrim, it was mindless, simple. I was able to jump into the game, and beyond the mandatory hour long face creation, I was able to begin playing and enjoying myself instantly. Wrong stats? So'kay, you can level them up later. Racial spell sucks? Oh well, you can find another version of it elsewhere, maybe even more powerful. Then there were only three stats to choose from when you leveled up, simple, and perks could be reset later or saved up for when you're ready. I didn't have to worry about setting up my character, I could just enjoy the game.

I know I didn't compare it to oblivion, but that's because fallout is what made me think of the connection.
13개 중 1-13 표시중
< >
Brandybuck 2014년 2월 12일 오후 11시 05분 
I like the fact that I don't have to worry about the leveling and stats and the other game mechanics, and can just get on with playing the game. The roleplaying should take center stage, not the number crunching. I want to see attributes come back in the next game, but they shouldn't be the goal of the game.
][G][ The Cure 2014년 2월 12일 오후 11시 40분 
Meaningful choice in character creation IS role playing. LMAO. This is what's wrong with the direction of this series, pandering to a lower common denominator of tard.

Extra levels of customization just further define your character/role play. And as long as you're actually roleplaying, which is doing what's in your character's prerogative to do, any choice is pretty much made for you. Worrying about number crunching and shortest time to level (which was never required in any ES title) is min maxing, not role playing.
Brandybuck 2014년 2월 13일 오전 10시 19분 
G The Cure님이 먼저 게시:
Meaningful choice in character creation IS role playing. LMAO. This is what's wrong with the direction of this series, pandering to a lower common denominator of tard.
Attribute selection is not very meaningful when the goal is to get every attribute to 100 (or 10 in the case of Fallout).

GM: "What character are you playing in the campaign?"
Player: "I want to play a strong but dumb Nord"
<a few levels later>
GM: "Okay, now you're a strong and intelligent Nord."

It's not that dramatic, but that is the direction they encourage you to take.

p.s. Yes, I know you don't directly choose attributes in Morrowind/Oblivion, but you do have to pick your major and minor skills, which govern those attributes that get improved first.

p.p.s. Your use of the word "tard" descends to a new low. Usually we Skyrim players are accused of being "dumb" or lacking "attention span". But tard is the kind of word fourteen year olds in their parent's basement use.
][G][ The Cure 2014년 2월 13일 오전 10시 25분 
Brandybuck님이 먼저 게시:
G The Cure님이 먼저 게시:
Meaningful choice in character creation IS role playing. LMAO. This is what's wrong with the direction of this series, pandering to a lower common denominator of tard.
Attribute selection is not very meaningful when the goal is to get every attribute to 100 (or 10 in the case of Fallout).
.
That was never the goal, and as long as you role played you never got all 100s. Learn more about RPGs and role playing before attempting to reply again. Pretty obvious you're new to the whole thing.
][G][ The Cure님이 마지막으로 수정; 2014년 2월 13일 오전 10시 26분
Brandybuck 2014년 2월 13일 오후 12시 58분 
G The Cure님이 먼저 게시:
That was never the goal, and as long as you role played you never got all 100s.
I may have never got all 100s, but I did get 100s in five attributes the last time I played Morrowind. You see, once you reach 100 in one attribute, you have no choice but to put future attribute increases in OTHER attributes. My pure mage maxed out Intelligence and Wisdom, and went on to max out Endurance. But that too got maxed out, so next time I level I have three more bonuses to spend. Where to put them? Hmmm, maybe Strength so I can carry more, or perhaps Agility so I can dodge about a bit. And of course let's not forget Luck.

There is NOT an option not to spend the bonus points. If you level you must spend them. The only way to avoid it is to not sleep, which is grossly out of character and thus not roleplaying.

G The Cure님이 먼저 게시:
Learn more about RPGs and role playing before attempting to reply again. Pretty obvious you're new to the whole thing.
Your level of insults marks you as a juvenile. Chronologically you might be an adult, but you have all the maturity of a fourteen year old.
][G][ The Cure 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 03분 
As long as you role played you never maxed out all attributes. Pretty obvious you have no idea what RPing is. It's mathematically impossible to max all attributes while staying in character/class. So, nothing you say matters.
Brandybuck님이 먼저 게시:
Learn more about RPGs and role playing before attempting to reply again. Pretty obvious you're new to the whole thing.
Your level of insults marks you as a juvenile. Chronologically you might be an adult, but you have all the maturity of a fourteen year old.
You've mistaken me for someone who cares what neophytes say or think.
][G][ The Cure님이 마지막으로 수정; 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 05분
macgg 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 04분 
skyrim et oblivion c'est cool
forsakenlight 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 08분 
Min maxing kind of ruins roleplay. I guess some people can enjoy both. Removing all consequence of decision and design is a poor solution tho in my book. Of course it would still take a large amount of time to max everything unless you cheat but eh.
][G][ The Cure 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 12분 
Min/max is pretty much the opposite of RPing. So I'm not sure why the first two posters mentioned RPing, and then just described min/max action gaming.

Anyway, when RPing pretty much any choice is made for you, based on what and who your RP is. So I'm not sure why it would take anybody hours to go over attributes, when they pretty much pick themselves a long as you have an idea of what/who you want to play as.
][G][ The Cure님이 마지막으로 수정; 2014년 2월 13일 오후 1시 13분
Outkin 2014년 2월 13일 오후 4시 44분 
Where do JRPG games sit within this? And min maxing.....that's what it's called huh? I didn't know there was a term for it. In that case, I dislike min maxing, and feeling like I have to do so to have a successful character.
Brandybuck 2014년 2월 13일 오후 6시 26분 
Well it's not really min/maxing. That's just the extreme form of it. I'm not looking for "perfect" leveling, but I do want my character to survive. In Morrowind that means wearing medium or heavy armor, or wielding a spear, just so you'll have some hit points. In Oblivion it means micromanaging your levels so you can keep up with the bandits who are leveling right along with you.

As I said earlier, I don't mind attributes and mechanics like them, but I do mind when they become the focus of the game. I guess that makes me a "tard".
][G][ The Cure 2014년 2월 13일 오후 6시 37분 
Brandybuck님이 먼저 게시:
In Morrowind that means wearing medium or heavy armor, or wielding a spear, just so you'll have some hit points. In Oblivion it means micromanaging your levels so you can keep up with the bandits who are leveling right along with you.
Neither of these things were required to be successful in either game.
Vahlok Ro Tiid 2014년 2월 13일 오후 8시 01분 
It should never be the sole driving purpose to achieve all 100s in your perks. It can be done though if you give yourself enough time to adventure and play the game, trying out new methods for your character. It that, your character is in a sense ... "always learning" something new, and the more you use skills related to a given perk tree, the more those skills related to it level up. As I level up more, my enemies also level up to equal the challenge.
My first character has gotten 4 trees maxed out at 100 and he's still going strong at level 53.
But I look at playing the game "in character" (role play), but I don't limit his choices simply because he's a particular race. He's the Dragonborn for Pete's sake. He's a mortal with the soul of a god.
Vahlok Ro Tiid님이 마지막으로 수정; 2014년 2월 13일 오후 8시 02분
13개 중 1-13 표시중
< >
페이지당: 15 30 50
게시된 날짜: 2014년 2월 12일 오후 9시 44분
게시글: 13