FEGELEIN! Jul 24 @ 1:09am
Hostile lightning mages; Healing spell shenanigans; Useless destro
all our favorite things from vanilla unmodded Skyrim.

(Everything I discuss here assumes Master or Legendary difficulty)

Things we can discuss:

1. Am I the only one who finds lightning oriented hostile mages to be walking ♥♥♥♥? no matter how well I'm prepared, I always find them to be unusually OP compared to other mages of comparable level. Just me?

2. At low levels, has anyone else noticed "juggle casting" back and forth the healing spell between both hands heals faster and more mana efficiently than doing both at same time or legit dual casting?

3. Unmodded, is destro really all the useless the further along you get?

Thoughts?
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-WhiteFatalis Jul 24 @ 1:23am 
nah man its all in the ice wall mages. they dont die and they can kill u in 3 hits. but if u get trouble with da mages just pop on some lightning resistance,


i eat ♥♥♥♥ for breakfeast lunch and diner.
Last edited by -WhiteFatalis; Jul 24 @ 1:23am
Malaficus Shaikan Jul 24 @ 1:26am 
1: at master of legedery difficulty the npc has more health, recieve less damage and does more damage too you.
Because of that you need overpowered weapons and armor.
So yes magic is useless at higher levels because it doesnt scale to the same overpoweredness as lets say: a fully enchanted legendery dragonbone armor and weapon set.
Unfortantily the strongest spell i found on legendery are illusion spells(as the npc bonus also effect allies) restoration(keeping people and yourself alive)

2: at low levels i cursed more then my fair share due to out of mana moments :(

3: destruction magic isnt useless just the least usefull of all skills.
Due to the limeted power of desruction many it will never do as much demage as a fully enchanted legendery deadric sword or a well place rage spell.
BloodFireIce Jul 24 @ 1:48am 
1. I think lightning does more damage then the other spells of the same level. Feels that way at least.
Checked: Flames does 14 per second, frost does 16 per second and lightning does 19 per second. Thats just the novice spells though. Higher spells apparently does the same damage.

2. Im possibly a little slow due to the fried brain, but didnt get this.

3. On legend its more difficult to level because it depends on the damage you deal. On legend you dont do so much damage so the skill ends up falling behind. And Bows do more damage on same skill level, unless you use very low level stuff.
I wouldnt call it useless. But in terms of damage a bow is better. Although magic has a higher entertainment value. The fire perk that makes people run away is very funny, The deep freeze have weird side effects like walking corpses (its a bug, the bow also have a paralyze perk though), and I personally find lightning to look very pretty.
The mages you talk about could have used higher level spells too, the different lightning spells look pretty much the same.
It also depends on what you're up against. Enemies have resistances against the different types, whereas they dont have resistance to bows.
And the master spells takes so long to cast you'll be dead before you finish (proided you're a non armored mage).
In general its just very weak compared to other weapons.

I did have a mod once, magic scaling. It may have been a little OP in the other magic branches, I managed to raise a giant (I had high level in conjuration though). But I found it to be ok with destruction. And Im not one to play OP characters, so it wasnt anything insane.
Grathagis Jul 24 @ 1:53am 
Make a mage with high sneak and silent casting, then you can cast those master level spells while remaining undetected. A few of them don't even require line of sight. You can cast them in one room and the effects spill over through an entire dungeon.
FEGELEIN! Jul 24 @ 2:06am 
to clarify point 2:

Alternating short bursts of right hand heal, left hand heal (like juggling) heals faster and uses less mana than using on ly one hand, using both at same time independently, or dual cast perk
BloodFireIce Jul 24 @ 2:44am 
It does? Never tried that actually. Usually get fast healing asap. Or use both hands as its faster. No comment I guess.

I prefer my spells to be noisy :D
I dont like the sound they make with QC, kinda like a buzzing fly that ends up drowning in a glass of water. I dont know if its a bug or not.
And apart from illusion itself, for me it doesnt make sense for spells to be quiet.
Last edited by BloodFireIce; Jul 24 @ 2:45am
FEGELEIN! Jul 24 @ 3:01am 
try it out. will definitely notice it on a lower level character.
istvan_v Jul 24 @ 3:16am 
Originally posted by MS-DOS 6.22:
1. Am I the only one who finds lightning oriented hostile mages to be walking ♥♥♥♥? no matter how well I'm prepared, I always find them to be unusually OP compared to other mages of comparable level. Just me?

Use a strong "resist shock" potion or enchantment(s). Armor alone is useless against magic, so for a player relying entirely on the armor rating to reduce damage will find mages increasingly overpowered as they level up. Additionally, shock hits instantly and cannot be dodged, making good resistance more important.

Originally posted by MS-DOS 6.22:
2. At low levels, has anyone else noticed "juggle casting" back and forth the healing spell between both hands heals faster and more mana efficiently than doing both at same time or legit dual casting?

Similar tricks can also make other continuously cast spells more effective, like novice level destruction. Although it is not used frequently, the "healing hand" spell works better in short bursts, too.

Originally posted by MS-DOS 6.22:
3. Unmodded, is destro really all the useless the further along you get?

It is not useless, it just cannot get anywhere near the "killing mammoths with one shot from a hunting bow on high difficulty" level of effectiveness, and it also levels very slowly without paying trainers to improve the skill. But the higher level destruction spells can be reasonably powerful with enchantments to make them cheap to cast, and with perks and the best possible crafted "fortify destruction" potions. They also have the advantage of being able to damage multiple targets at once, and allowing for more agile ranged combat than bows.

Although starting on legendary difficulty I tend to prefer conjuration (not sure if the conjured creatures even become weaker at higher difficulty relative to the enemies), also for the bound bow that is powerful and levels archery quickly. Additionally, novice level destruction can be dangerous because of the buggy kill cam that often activates too early and may get the player's character killed.
FEGELEIN! Jul 24 @ 4:42am 
i never once expected any destro spell to nuke a mammoth in one cast dude, I'm not crazy.
Last edited by FEGELEIN!; Jul 24 @ 4:56am
Brandybuck Jul 24 @ 10:34am 
Originally posted by MS-DOS 6.22:
3. Unmodded, is destro really all the useless the further along you get?
It's not useless, it just doesn't have much in the way of DPS. It's even worse on Master and Legendary where your foes are walking bags of hit points. If you're looking for DPS then stick with your enchanted two handers boosted with potions.

However, the other schools of magic can make Legendary a cake walk. I always consider Destruction to be just for mopping up after the fight is over. Illusionists rock. Overlook the Forsworn camp from a ledge, cast some area effect fury in their midst, pull out the popcorn, enjoy the show. Now you can cast fireballs at will if you wish. Go invisible if someone notices you. It's almost like cheating.
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Date Posted: Jul 24 @ 1:09am
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