HemiSphericFreight Aug 1 @ 8:52am
Dark Brotherhood questline
I've always found the brotherhood line to fall flat after the big kill...

So, I've done a little experimenting with helping cicero out on the way to whiterun vs turning him in etc... And I've found some plot holes in the game and the handling of the Cicero at the farm situation... Long story short, I did a trest where turning the jester in and then watching the result resulted in nothing lkike what was expected to happen from the wording of the quest.
This is my only complaint about the dark brotherhood questline itself; is that the result of helping to start the wagon repair does not result in Cicero moving on. This quest should not be related/linked to the initial quest that technically has no ingame connection to the Dark brotherhood initial quest. If, you decide to destroy the brotherhood for example, but help Cicero. Cicero should logically still go to the Falkwreath Sanctuary unknowing that Astrid has been killed. The game shouldd also take note of one's refusal to immediatelky resolve quest objectives and simulate accordingly. Meaning that, by the time one would get around to destroying the dark brotherhood, there would be adequate time for discovery of Astrid's body, Cicero and the Night Mother arriving... REGUARDLESS of whether you choose to join or not. This is where I think the Dark brotherhood questline feels a bit forced and not well scripted. Time should flow on, Cicero should be led away/forced to fight the guard etc if you turn him in, with a chance of fighting and killing him/looting his journals and finding the dawnstar sanct. passphrase... This would give the chance to go back later and check your handy work so to speak if you did kill most of the known Brotherhood. to then at your own discretion look at the Dawnstar sanct. and go from there.

Sorry for all the black text, but there is more, this is sort of a rant after all...

There should be more possibilities as far as how you could go about things.. you could kill off one sanct. and after solving civil war etc go back and join the dawnstar sanct. Having an option always to, if you did kill the falkwreath sanct., of going to a guard and betraying the dawnstar locale. Contrary to that view, there shoulld be the option of taking the penti Oculatius in skyrim out for good if you joined Dark brotherhood properly.

So, with that said, are there any mods that add the sort of more realistic cause and effect actions to this questline in particular? Or is this shortsightedness something not adjustable?
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Delta 1038 Aug 1 @ 9:01am 
It's more of giving the player the illusion of choice if Bethesda wishes to bring the DBrotherhood in the next game back. Either the Dragonborn helped them or the Dragonborn wasn't thorough in pest control.
Grathagis Aug 1 @ 9:05am 
All quests are linear, but they still contain a lot of bugs. Imagine what would happen if you gave the player an actual choice, and you would have diverging questlines.
BloodFireIce Aug 1 @ 9:05am 
Yeah, Im pretty sure next game will have some mention the brotherhood killing santa claus even if the dragonborn wasnt the killer.
Check Nexus for DB mods.
HemiSphericFreight Aug 1 @ 9:14am 
I can see that, but that illusion of choice is pretty bloody fleeting if you look at the results of what the games with your choices.. Babette's not there if you go to detroy the falkwreath Sanct.... And this just came to me, that Cicero is transporting the Night Mother as well... But, there could be a case in point where the night mother herself could intervene and talk to the character in an appeal to stop the destruction.

Ah Bethesda, your illusion of choice needs illusion of action to go with it.. for ALL quests that involve a health number of npcs interacting between themselves and following up on what they tell the player character what they will do according to the choice of dialogue the player has specified.
BloodFireIce Aug 1 @ 9:21am 
Babette isnt there for the same reason you cant kill children I think.
NM stopping dragonborn would remove the choice completly. And give you less options, why would you want that?
You have to imagine. You dont know how is a member of the brotherhood and who isnt. So those people getting away shouldnt make a difference to you...your character at least.
HemiSphericFreight Aug 1 @ 10:37am 
Flexibility of choice and smooth out rutts in storyflow... Its not a more limited choice.. Say Dborn came accross Babette later in story as possible to adopt...

Just a thought

It also just came to me as well... That children arent coded as real fighters...
But in my thinking, I view it as Babette being out on a job..

However, going back to my original grump about Cicero.. If you help him, then kill Astrid a day or so after that, then go to the guard and then sanct. Cicero should have arrived there.. What I'm saying is that the last part of that destrot brotherhood could be more interesting with a conversation with the Night mother where the option is to burn her or agree to spare her.. Something that makes the Dborn more than an outsider and inputs the character into the fabric of the game more than black or white all or nothing choices...

Speaking of other issues, how do you get named recruits for the D brotherhood anyway? Just to me, the quest tree at the end feels..... bleh, compared to theives guild where you have quite the variety of quests to do...

There should be scouting missions or stakeout missions, not simply borinbg contract after contract that you can't assign out or give to others in the organization to do...

Maybe I should read my guide a bit more if I'm missing something... Just feels like I am...
BloodFireIce Aug 1 @ 11:18am 
Um...no. No destroying of mummy mommy. She's a reoccuring character since Oblivion and possibly Morrowind (that could have been someone else). Killing her and there would be no mummy mommy in future games and no DB.
Multiple outcomes makes future games more difficult. As the game makers then have to deccide which was the right choice so they can make a 3 pages ingame book about it... And then whatever they choose they will piss off fans. They can also choose both options apparently which will also piss people off.

Adopting Babette seems a little...twisted to me, considering she's older then you. And smart enough to pick her victims I would think.

Imo for the player to progress at all you have to be a character somewhere in between.

Mods for named recruits. Found one...was sure there was another one that gave you more DB quests... http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25941/?

As for stakeout, again this is where you pretend/roleplay/imagine.
HemiSphericFreight Aug 2 @ 10:46pm 
Yeah, Thanks again.
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Date Posted: Aug 1 @ 8:52am
Posts: 8