Tarmin Slamero 15 Wrz, 2013 - 16:55
I can not Charme.
I'm sure that for people who can; Charme is great, but I can't use this adventurer. Not early on anyway.

I get Charme pretty early, but even then by that time I have leveled Lou so far ahead of her that I would just as soon pay the extra pix if I have not already spent most or all of it that day.

Charme has rubbish defense without gear found/bought later on, and by that time I will have passed her over for someone else if I don't just stick with Lou the entire first month.

I cannot get the timing for her defensive ability consistently, especially under pressure when it is actually needed. Her low... *ahem* "No" defense combined with her dash speed is a combo for failure in my hands.

So what if others are slow compared to her? I'll take a (relative to her) stone wall or a tank over trying to speedrun dungeons and just wasting far more time failing than I would gain if I was good at using her full potential.
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SanguineTear 18 Wrz, 2013 - 9:49 
Different strokes for different folks; once I unlocked Charme I never touched Louie again. I've always been the sort that prefers speed over strength, and Charme's agility has saved me on several occassions. Plus, her mirror image also gives her a nice offensive edge compared to Louie.

That said, she isn't my favorite; I generally prefer Tielle, Griff, or Nagi.
Casper 18 Wrz, 2013 - 17:52 
She's my favourite, only hit n run.
goldenradish 25 Wrz, 2013 - 18:13 
In the larger dungeons, I'm thankful for Charme's ability to dash. After returning to Louie, I think my times for exploring doubled. But I'm of those people that wants to check every corner for loot.

I find Tielle and Nagi harder to use, but as Saabs said, we'll all have different favourites.
Ultima Wraith 28 Wrz, 2013 - 5:54 
For the most part I'm the same way but as golden stated, in larger dungeon she's amazing so you don't spend all of your (real) day running around it.
adorabloodthirsty 29 Wrz, 2013 - 16:04 
I love her speed, not only does it make larger dungeons go by much faster but it has helped me avoid a lot of damage. I think it more than makes up for her poor defence
reikken 2 Paź, 2013 - 16:43 
Charme's lack of range is what gets me. Louie and Nagi's attacks have a much bigger hitbox. Nagi is Charme except better, as far as I'm concerned. They both can dash, and do a dash attack, except Nagi's dash I can use without worrying about running into an enemy that's just offscreen, since she can run into things without taking damage.
goldenradish 2 Paź, 2013 - 19:16 
Reikken, that's interesting about Nagi's dash. I've never been able to control her, and find fighting with her almost impossible. I get through so many watermelons with her that half my inventory is full of them at the start of the dungeon!

Tiell is another I can't get on with due to her attack method (holding to fire). I'm probably too impatient.
Tarmin Slamero 4 Paź, 2013 - 2:59 
Charme's lack of range is what gets me. Louie and Nagi's attacks have a much bigger hitbox. Nagi is Charme except better, as far as I'm concerned. They both can dash, and do a dash attack, except Nagi's dash I can use without worrying about running into an enemy that's just offscreen, since she can run into things without taking damage.

I was actually considering Nagi as my 2nd after Lou for the next time I start fresh again.
Been considering from the start someone who uses spears anyway.
The idea of using a "ranged melee" fighter appeals to me.
Nagi was a pleasant enough encounter, if somewhat odd.
I just have to stick with an "debt paid" save long enough to actually get her basic card before I decide for certain.

Not so confident in using an archer, but more so than a caster like "Mr. Slime Liver Jerk".
Waypoint 10 Paź, 2013 - 13:27 
I love playing Charme. She's extremely difficult to learn, but her damage output and evasion is incredible if you know how to stay alive. She's one of the only characters I can reliably bring down the hairier bosses with in Boss Rush (other than Caillou, who in all but like two fights is basically a free win). She's also the only character other than Caillou that I've been able to kill Arma with unscathed.

For now, you probably do want to stick with Louie, since it sounds like you're barely even into Amber Way, and early on his gear types offset the fact that he's a one-trick horse with nearly useless skills, virtually no SP to use them, and moves too slow to avoid much. Later on, enemies start putting out obscene amounts of damage, and the focus shifts to evasion and killing them as quickly and smoothly as possible. Charme can do that fantastically...provided you already know their patterns and what to expect. When you're ready to break out our lovely thief...

First, forget about her guard. The only time I ever use Charme's guard is when taking on the lines of four rock-throwing kobolds in the endgame dungeons. I'm sure people who play tons of Street Fighter can use it more reliably otherwise, but it's less useful compared to...

Second, get very friendly with your diagonals. They key to playing Charme is attacking safely, and almost everything in the game attacks along cardinal directions.

Third, keep your fire dash ready. It's expensive at first, but by the time you hit level 25 or so you'll have enough SP to use it whenever you need to until a level-up refills it. Fire dashing doesn't do much damage, but it a) makes you invincible and can boost you out of a corner -- through enemies if necessary, like the 3x pillbug boss or getting surrounded by tentacles -- and b) its hitbox extends vertically which means you can kill bees with it. In the later dungeons, bees hit obscenely hard and are almost always worth spending SP to clear out. Also, you can fire dash diagonally, which keeps you safe even during most boss fights.

Fourth, don't worry too much about armor -- her defense is kinda crap, you should be focusing on evasion, and you don't want to be bringing more than 1-2 important pieces of gear into a dungeon in case you eat dirt (I'm guessing you can still hold only one item when retreating. That changes soon if your merchant level has been going up at a good pace). Instead, give her the best knife you have on you at all times, because her key strength other than moving ludicrously quickly is killing things ludicrously quickly. An MDef charm is also a good idea. By the time MDef really starts counting, you can usually make a Miracle Charm without too much trouble. Once the debt is paid off, you can start buying disposable Healing Rings that'll keep you alive when you screw up -- 10,000 pix seems like a lot to be calling disposable now, but in the postgame it's pocket change.

Side note: If you ever see a Mana Charm drop from a chest, exit the dungeon safely as quickly as possible. If you die before you get there, take the Mana Charm back even if you lose good fused gear in the process. Mana Charms fuse into Ancient Charms. They're the best MDef accessory you'll see for the vast majority of the game, you use so many materials making its components that you almost always get a +15, their MDef is hilariously far above the next closest thing, and they're an ingredient in the final-rank MDef charm fusion. Make it, never sell it to anyone, bring it on every dungeon run from then on, and guard it with your life.

When fighting character bosses, all of them but Tielle will fall down and all of their attacks interrupted after two consecutive hits. So you adopt a hit-and-run strategy. You run circles around them, bait them into an attack, knife them in the side before they complete it, and then fire dash through them to knockdown and get away safely. Actually it works pretty well on Tielle too even without the knockdown, so long as you dash diagonally so she can't hit you again.

Non-character bosses are typically much more straightforward: wait for an opening, bring out 2-3 Shadow Clones, then eat their face and collect loot. The most powerful attack in the game is Caillou's Sparkburst at close range; Charme with 2-3 shadow clones is a close second, and you can keep moving the whole time. Non-character bosses die stupidly fast this way (most of them in just a few swings), and for things like Samhains or Eyebat Kings it's critical to end the fight as quickly as possible before the screen gets too cluttered, or at least bring one down before they attack.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Waypoint; 11 Paź, 2013 - 1:21
Tarmin Slamero 15 Paź, 2013 - 21:14 
She's extremely difficult to learn, but her damage output and evasion is incredible if you know how to stay alive.

I'll be sure to check this thread and take your advice under consideration next time I step out of my comfort zone by trying Charme. In the meantime though, I don't see her becoming one of my top 3 most compatible adventurers any time reasonably soon. Still... Thanks for trying.
Waypoint 16 Paź, 2013 - 21:11 
If you need a good dagger and you're into Obsidian Tower at all, the Rank 2 fusion is relatively simple to make and outmatches all vendor daggers. Just go after every yellow knight you see for a while.

Before that, just give her vendor ones. The Rank 1 fusion is garbage, as are all the rare drops you get until postgame.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Waypoint; 16 Paź, 2013 - 21:13
Furesburg 17 Paź, 2013 - 1:46 
After starting to experiment with other adventurers post-game, I've really had fun using Charme, and I was astonished at how quickly bosses melt to her and mirror images (particularly Samhain). But yeah, it took a long time to feel comfortable with dodging damage reliably, particularly since I never really looked back after getting Elan to level 20 and having the ability to pretty much permanently be berserked; doesn't really take much skill, that...

Also, this is just personal preference, but when I used Charme in survival mode, using things that give an attack boost (strongarm band, capes, pirate hat, etc...) to an already fast-attacking character can let you take out enemies quickly to avoid being surrounded, while the slight loss of defense compared to an otherwise superior piece of equipment is okay, as it's easier with her to dodge or invincibility dash through anything that doesn't flat out surprise you.
Waypoint 17 Paź, 2013 - 20:18 
Samhains are like the biggest reason I like bringing Charme into boss rushes. She tears those things apart so much easier than "I lose my entire slow-charging attack when I get tapped by a pumpkin" Tielle. The difference between the two of them for the 3x fight is just hilarious.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Waypoint; 17 Paź, 2013 - 20:19
Tarmin Slamero 21 Paź, 2013 - 14:08 
Perhaps some clarification of my viewpoint is needed.
I do not like looping. Ever. None of my new games are "New Game+".
I am told that New+ counts as an added loop. Thus that is not a factor.

After the first month when all the debt is paid, I can take my time to experiment with other adventurers without the time limit hanging over my neck. My issue is with the first month.

The catch is by the time I clear Jade Way, I usually have Lou levelled so far ahead of the others that switching to anybody else (especially Charme) to clear Amber Garden seems like a silly idea at best and more often suicidal when considering that I try to clear all dungeons before Obsidian Tower in one visit each to avoid wasting time better spent selling in the shop.

After clearing Amber Garden, I tend to stick to the shop and town for the rest of the month.
One sees that this makes the choice of adventurer mostly irrelevant until after the first month.

On top of everything else; after the first month, there is no need to hold back on spending out of fear of not having enough to make the next payment on due day.
Thus I end up spending (almost) everything on new stock and end up with Lou anyway as the only one willing to work at such a high level for practically nothing.

Besides all this distilling down to "I secretly hate money, so I obsessively spend as much of it as I can when I can." when examined, the question arises "Why bother adventuring at all after buying so much stock?". The obvious answer is "To complete the item encyclopedia." which requires fusion ingredients only found in dungeons.

If I want anyone other than Lou after that first month, I will have to control my spending. *sigh*
goldenradish 21 Paź, 2013 - 19:52 
(Sorry peeps, this is a little off topic, hope you don't mind)

Hey there Tarmin! Interesting post there, but I have to ask why you don't like looping?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it going to be nigh on impossible (or horribly, horribly frustration) to get to Arma without looping? I've forgotten which dungeon she's occurs in, but don't you have to unlock her in New Game + in order to get the true card (and thus complete the encyclopedia)?

Again, I could be wrong, but I loved the New Game + . It was all about the dungeon crawling, character interractions and so forth.

Plus, back on the topic, I love Charme's double/treble ghost twin fighter skill. Sorry I don't know the name, but as people have said, it's marvellous for shortening boss fights (my experience only).
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