Herr. Teufel Mann Sep 10, 2013 @ 11:13pm
So this game hasn't changed much, then...
Not been on it in ages - two things happen:

1. A complete muppet, evidently with enough DD experience to know better, joins a KGNMHC game, and screws up the first build phase, for me, so I had to restart.

2. Suddenly lost connection, mid-game.

Just like old times. ¬_¬ I love(d) this game, that's evident with the 1200+ hours of gameplay, but stuff like the above just kills the enjoyment.

Anyone else finding this off-putting, when trying to get back into DD? I also see a lot less games than there used to be; does this mean the whole Dungeon Defenders 2 thing, is really hitting off with DD fans? Personally, I'm just worried DD2 will end up as "pay-to-win".

And no, I'm not trolling, a tiny little kid, or whatever else, ... just an honest player that tried to get back into DD, after not being on for quite a while, and had another sucky experience. I'm not a "hater" either - as I said, I loved this game and played it to death.

I tried to get into DD again, yesterday, but all I got was some eejit trying to one-up me every chance he got, while I was trying to have a conversation with someone else. ¬_¬

Remind me why this game rawks? ;) I remember stuff like:

1. Heaps of items to collect and trade!
2. Tonnes of maps.
3. Loads of achievements and trophies.
4. Great team-play. (depending on the team, I guess)
5. Plenty of characters and skins to choose from.
6. Heaps of DLC.

What else?

But then I remember the bad sides:

1. Hackers/cheaters ruining it for other folk. :/
2. Thoughtless people or trolls, ruining other people's games.
3. Constant kicking, although, granted, I can appreciate WHY sometimes it's fair play.
4. Server/game crashes.
5. Performance issues, although, to be fair, I don't notice this as much as I used to.

Can't think of anything else, off-hand.

Any thoughts, anyone?
Last edited by Herr. Teufel Mann; Sep 10, 2013 @ 11:27pm
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
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ShoX@SCHOKOLAAAADE!!!! Sep 11, 2013 @ 1:23am 
Well to be fair i rareley see any hackers or trolls.
There are of course some "unexperienced" players who seem to be trolling, but imo its just because of their lack of ´playtime.

I still get kicked a lot on some games like akatiti, ww or some sort, but i´d say i have decent gear and experience so i dont why =\

Rarely getting any crashes of some sort, but I seem to have performance problems with huge waves, but that is just a symptom of my bad connection and computer, so if you dont have an issue with both of these things, you shouldn´t have any problems with that.

Tydo Sep 11, 2013 @ 2:18am 
Originally posted by Herr. Teufel Mann:
But then I remember the bad sides:
Any thoughts, anyone?
6. Steam disconnects... damn valve trolls. Only ever had problems with that in DD, not other games.
Major turnoff when you are doing a hour+ long survival run.
Herr. Teufel Mann Sep 11, 2013 @ 2:28am 
Amen! I remember that all too well, Tydo. >.<
Road Sep 11, 2013 @ 6:52am 
i get burned out regularly on this game. i just uninstall then come back in a couple months but trick is there wont be any new content this is it. DD2 will come out will be just another MOBA. the coop side of the game has little difference to this one personally i've seen some new towers except they should all be new. i dont care for the MOBA i dont plan on playing that to any extreme like i did DD1 but the coop i will easily be able to judge day 1. if i see the same map list as DD1 they just ported it over and put some glam on it i wont play. not interested in DD1 with a little polish on it.

if your not having fun dont play. finding people at your skill range is nearly impossible. short of disconnects my only other complaint is the hackers but trendy has proven time and time again they will do nothing about it.
Jorkfriend Sep 11, 2013 @ 7:52am 
Another downside is endgame RNG never dropping good items. I must've farmed NM HC MM Survival for at least 200 hours in the past and never found an upgrade for any of my characters. 3 of my builders alone have pretty mediocre stats (1.8-2.2k) and even they never found upgrades.

That's what burned me off of this game. I truly enjoy it but if I'm never gonna get gear good enough for NM crystalline dimension I don't see a point to keep playing, so I haven't in months. Last time I did play I beat lab assault on NM HC for the super legendary EV costume, and farmed some (admittedly pretty amazing) accessories from Insane HC Lab since you get less re-rolled into the negatives accessories on insane.

I rarely pop in and drop a ton of mana for noobies who want some but that's about it. I'd trade for gear if they didn't want your soul + an arm for one armor piece.
Egal Matreaux Sep 11, 2013 @ 10:54am 
My issues are mainly with the maps that need fixing but it'll never happen now that they are focused on DD2. Copters in King's Game still sit riduclously high on top level and launch rockets at the bottom level. Lab Assault needs the bosses put on map and they should die when they go over the edge, there's one spot they land alot and you can't hit them there. Tinkerer's Lab, for me anyways, has a massive amount of lag for no obvious reason, I mean during build phase, where it shouldn't be happening. There's more, I just can't think of it at the momment.

The most obvious thing that needs changing is the drop rate for Supreme and Ultimate. I have over 1300+ hours and I've only ever found a couple of each. Speaking of drop rates, Lab Assualt's rewards are way too high and far too easy to exploit. I've never gotten Supereme or Ultimate Acc. untill I did that map, and I've seen Godly and Myth Acc. with +100 on the stats, that's not right at all. Whatever, makes the noobs happy.
Kamuro Sep 11, 2013 @ 11:30am 
hm .. dunno maybe i should stop upgrading and repairing things or go afk to not get kicked lol.
yea alot hacker these days, but if u cant stop them enjoy the free items. hm .. ive seen only 5 hackers so far today
Theoran Sep 11, 2013 @ 1:52pm 
1. Hackers/cheaters ruining it for other folk. :/
I host often so I generally give them an opportunity to change gear. if they don't I have to kick them

2. Thoughtless people or trolls, ruining other people's games.
I feel this exists in all online gaming honestly.

3. Constant kicking, although, granted, I can appreciate WHY sometimes it's fair play.
I host 90% of the time so I have not experienced this. In my 1200+ hours of playing, I've kicked 2 people.

4. Server/game crashes.
It still happens but not as much.

5. Performance issues, although, to be fair, I don't notice this as much as I used to.
This still exists on a few maps. tink's Lab is notoriously laggy with large Auras. Sky City is almost unplayable with 4 toons.

Just like old times. ¬_¬ I love(d) this game, that's evident with the 1200+ hours of gameplay, but stuff like the above just kills the enjoyment.
I'm with you there but now I have found piece in this. All of my toons are/were around 3.5k stats with just trans gear and I could handle everything solo but CD. It's just finding a balance and being OK with things my toons.

Anyone else finding this off-putting, when trying to get back into DD? I also see a lot less games than there used to be; does this mean the whole Dungeon Defenders 2 thing, is really hitting off with DD fans?
There's a lot less people because there just doesn't seem to be a lot of builders or people wanting to build. I find many DPS players that don't have a single builder in their stable. Plus, with a 3-5 minute Lab Assault run with decent-to-great rewards, the majority of people farm that challenge than build. Another thing that happened is that a lot of players try to avoid the muppets you ran into and play with other members in private from the remaining active steam groups for DD. It's a lot easier on the brain to play with people that don't need to be told to NOT SIT ON THE CRYSTAL!

It can be rewarding to help players that try hard and need a little boost, but not everyone is really wanting that in their gameplay.
Exizt why Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:12pm 
Frankly, this is a beautiful thing gone amuck. The mathemtics behind the game have been essentially destroyed by older idiot players and Trendy bought the bs farm on this. Lots of cheating. Lots of buying of equipment posted by old playes with the old over-powered putty. The networking is glitchy. Lots of advice on the net everywhere that is essentially worthless.

Don't believe me? Prove it then. Post on youtube a level zero character or characters based on the latest patch that can get from level 0 to BEATING worthwhile Nightmare levels WITHOUT taking HUNDREDS of hours. I'm waiting....
Jorkfriend Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:15pm 
Originally posted by infinos:
Frankly, this is a beautiful thing gone amuck. The mathemtics behind the game have been essentially destroyed by older idiot players and Trendy bought the bs farm on this. Lots of cheating. Lots of buying of equipment posted by old playes with the old over-powered putty. The networking is glitchy. Lots of advice on the net everywhere that is essentially worthless.

Don't believe me? Prove it then. Post on youtube a level zero character or characters based on the latest patch that can get from level 0 to BEATING worthwhile Nightmare levels WITHOUT taking HUNDREDS of hours. I'm waiting....
Nobody has anything to prove to you, or cares to.

I can get the frustration when it comes to endgame items, but most of your posts barely make any sense and is just angry rambling. Do what I did and stop playing if you're burnt out on it.
Exizt why Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:39pm 
Originally posted by Jorkfriend:
Originally posted by infinos:
Frankly, this is a beautiful thing gone amuck. The mathemtics behind the game have been essentially destroyed by older idiot players and Trendy bought the bs farm on this. Lots of cheating. Lots of buying of equipment posted by old playes with the old over-powered putty. The networking is glitchy. Lots of advice on the net everywhere that is essentially worthless.

Don't believe me? Prove it then. Post on youtube a level zero character or characters based on the latest patch that can get from level 0 to BEATING worthwhile Nightmare levels WITHOUT taking HUNDREDS of hours. I'm waiting....
Nobody has anything to prove to you, or cares to.

I can get the frustration when it comes to endgame items, but most of your posts barely make any sense and is just angry rambling. Do what I did and stop playing if you're burnt out on it.


It is simple. Post a valid walkthrough proving I'm merely frustrated for no particular reason. Post an honest game walkthrough that DISproves my 'angry rambling'.
Exizt why Sep 13, 2013 @ 4:51pm 
Jork, that's what I thought. Get the f off. Seriously. Don't talk down to me. If you want respect- post it. I'm waiting. 2013 DD character from 0 to your NM superhero. I'm waiting.
Jorkfriend Sep 13, 2013 @ 5:10pm 
Originally posted by infinos:
Jork, that's what I thought. Get the f off. Seriously. Don't talk down to me. If you want respect- post it. I'm waiting. 2013 DD character from 0 to your NM superhero. I'm waiting.
I don't care if a random guy on the internet respects me or not. Again, nobody has anything to prove to you nor do they care to. Either keep playing the game or don't.

I stopped playing months ago, did I come in venting about all the games flaws? No because there's no point. Yes, you're right about the endgame being terrible, but nothing's ever gonna fix it and trying to get random people to jump through your hoops won't accomplish anything either. It's a waste of time for both parties involved.
Exizt why Sep 13, 2013 @ 5:44pm 
" It's a waste of time for both parties involved."

I consider my voice an opinion. I love the game. The artistry is beautiful. The lan is ok. The overall experience in terms of dollars- fine.

Beyond this... there exists intangibles that can destroy or make a software reality. And, make no mistake THIS IS about playing with alt realities... If you f with people who appreciate an intelligent path of progession that doesn't require the psychopathic mmo route said minds that are typically fat-walleted WILL not only appreciate your amazing art but also a reasonable gameplay vector. I am rich. I have plenty of ♥♥♥♥ing money. I am tough as ♥♥♥♥ (grew up in a ghetta). HOWEVER, I am NOT paying 20-30-40-50-60 for games that take lifetimes...Give me some end game beauty that lasts 50-200 hours and then relief... this isn't endless space minecraft.
Herr. Teufel Mann Sep 13, 2013 @ 10:37pm 
IDK about all this bickering, but.. you're not the only person I've noticed of whom complains about the difficulty from insane to nightmare, but actually, it is very doable. The same rule usually always applies: farm lower levels, until you can handle higher levels. Farm to get your character levels up, and to get better gear. Obviously, you figured at least this part out, so I'll say a bit more:

Assuming you've got to level 74, becuase, let's fact it, that isn't hard to get. I'm assuming you will have acquired enough gear to be doing Glitter (can't remember the full name) on insane, HC. You can do that level again and again, for, I think 1.3 (or 2.3) million EXP, if I remember anywhere near correctly. You should be familiar with the mechanics, and have a good idea of build strategies, at this point. Go through some of the challenges, and see which ones you can do, as they have good rewards, especially for the <74 lower levels. I don't think it would take hundreds of hours, but I guess that depends on various things, like luck, skill, how quick you build/manage/fight, how well you know the maps and their rewards, how well you manage and know gear, etc.

There are things that some people completely miss, such as: failing to use a proper DPS character, not taking advantage of the summoner, EV's beams, or the Monk's crazy auras. It's perfectly doable, to get to the 1-4 campaign NIghtmare levels, that is, the ones at and before the first boss, but the ones after, pose more of a threat for a newish player. OK, so, these levels give you Mythical stuff, which is absolutely essential, for you to take on the later campaign levels, AND for challenges/bonus campaign levels, in order to get much better gear, like the Pawn Shot. There's also survival matches on these maps, which are great for cash, and especially loot, for this part in the game.

As you can see, you don't need some fancy guide, you simply follow the basic methodology of these games, of which I stated earlier. The difference, I think, with this game and other RPGs, is that this forces more replayability, prods you for more teamplay, and makes loot absolutely essential. At least 90% of what I have accomplished on DD, I did solo, so the above, is all relative to a solo-style of gameplay.

Good luck, and remember.. it's just a game.

EDIT: The above is assuming you don't visit people's shops or player-trade, but actually, the fact that you can, makes a massive difference. Just farm stuff and sell it on; you then use that cash, to buy some slightly better gear from other shops. See where I'm going with this? As it stands, most people probably had the Portal gun, and the 4 TF2 pets, which can either be used (I strongly recommend Heavy, at the <74 levels, or until you find something better) or sold on for a decent amount.

I used to trade a lot of portals and TF2 pets; initially, I started off trading for 200m per pet, and 600m-3b per portal, but later on, I started selling for 600m on the portal, and 100-200m on the individual pets. I mention the starting items, because they can net you a LOT of money, and enough to totally kit yourself out, but, understandably, not all people don't realise this, and trade them away. I used to offer my services, in return for whatever someone was happy to give me, which was pretty cool. By the time I really got into nightmare, I had many bils, great gear, several characters, and relatively decent levels.

I also farmed solo, by the way - for some reason, I didn't like farming in teams, or letting someone else farm for me, because it felt unfair, not to mention if I farmed solo, I could get ALL the loot that would drop for me, and could work at my own pace, without interference.

You know, honestly, even if it does take many 100s of hours to play some worthwhile nightmare levels, how is that a bad thing? The game has amazing longevity; I played it for over 1,200 hours, or, well, ... probably more like 1,000+, as I did leave the shop on, a few times. I look back at all those hours spent farming, learning, practicing, improving gear, browsing shops, trading, etc, and I think to myself: "That was fun!" The name is, afterall: "Nightmare", so it would kinda suck if it were easy to get to and took just a few hours to be able to play.

I'm reminded of the people that complained about Guitar Hero being too hard, ... on the hardest difficulty, ... on the hardest songs. ¬_¬ It's like, "OK, how about NOT going on the game's hardest difficulty?" Top difficulties are meant to be hard, and that's their purpose; that's the whole point.

If I could be bothered, and didn't have other things to do, I'd kinda like to make a YouTube video, litterally walking you through the whole process, as best I can, because I think it would help a lot of people. I imagine there's probably already a lot of videos, guides, tips, and stuff, out there, so maybe have a look around. I don't think all of it is too old and worthless; I'm fairly sure I stumbled onto some good stuff, a while back.

Sorry for the exhaustive resonse, but after all that stuff was said, I really felt it necessary to just stick some cards on the table, plus I've just woken up, and it made for something to do. :P Now, I'll go watch Frasier or something. Bye!
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Date Posted: Sep 10, 2013 @ 11:13pm
Posts: 16