Dungeon Defenders

Dungeon Defenders

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TheCurmudgeons Jun 10, 2013 @ 8:29pm
how to teach newbies - I'm not having much luck.
Just played a NM Magus survival for level 75 and up - out of the six who joined not one had or knew what a set of armor was. I tried to explain about a complete set - went over their heads and they wondered why they would need it. Of course the first thing that hit them they died and of course they had lagg. I tried to explain about the Zero - to negative resistance in their armor and trying to loot stuff doesn't really work well. That in a harder map they would most likely get kicked frequently still didnt sink in - So How do I explain so they can understand what I mean about a complete set of armor? And: I'm sorry to the group I had with me - I was in awe and total disbelief so I told you I was bored and left on wave 22. I usually play to the end of the session so you get your pets.
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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments
AdmiralMeow Jun 10, 2013 @ 9:35pm 
That's because now no one plays though on their own. They all get power leveled to hell and then left to try and learn everything. I see level 90+ all the time that don't know anything at all about the game
Saladressing Jun 10, 2013 @ 9:43pm 
Yea, It tends to be people just powerleveling thinking your level is more important than your stats. Its upsetting but takes time to explain everything. Good job running a magus and seeing they are taking everything. Would of be awful if you went on a higher level.
Octavia Jun 10, 2013 @ 9:58pm 
Speaking from the perspective of someone who started playing recently, perhaps a few weeks ago, I actually had the misconception that level meant a lot; that's how it tends to go in a lot of games, where gear isn't what makes or breaks you, but simply provides a nice sort of icing on the cake, and earlier in the game that seems to be how it is. Granted, I played offline and my connection doesn't really allow me to play online, except with a group of friends who are willing to tolerate me playing with six hundred or so ping, but I see a fair bit of games where the title is "Rep and level", so I assume it's someone doing free grinding, and it's always on a map that would be impossible for a newer player to do.

A lot of people seem to have a tendency to jump online first in any game, and they tend to just play without taking advice; coming from other games, I see it happen a lot. People just sort of trudge along without doing research, don't take advice and possibly assuming that they're doing something wrong, but unwilling to fix it, or they're trying their own stuff without knowing the mechanics behind it.

It's a shame, but at least this doesn't seem like a game where one person not knowing what they're doing will completely stonewall you, unless they're doing something like selling defenses; at least, not for some people. It's nice to see that there's at least some people who try to help others online; it really sucks when a community doesn't want to help newer players, but it's always ironic when it does, but said newer players don't take advantage of it in any way other than attempting to leech builds, gear or other things that don't make them better in the long run.
Tydo Jun 11, 2013 @ 4:08am 
Originally posted by Octavia:
Speaking from the perspective of someone who started playing recently, perhaps a few weeks ago, I actually had the misconception that level meant a lot; that's how it tends to go in a lot of games, where gear isn't what makes or breaks you, but simply provides a nice sort of icing on the cake

I have to object a bit there. Gear is make or break in the majority of popular (mmo)RPG, which is what people have most likely played before.
I completely agree about the level bit, mostly it is just a rush to maxlevel, to begin getting in the 'endgame'. Gear still matters there though.

As for educating new players, there is not much other that insisting that they visit the Wiki and use the search button a lot. As outdated, incomplete and lacking in structure as it is, it still is the best all-in-one source of information on DD that we have.
It really needs a crash course page along the lines of: "So, you are new to DD, here is some basic information you need to know". There is a lot of non-obvious and arbitrary stuff in the game that can be real showstoppers (and turnoffs).

The alternative, trawling the official forum for the info, is a hopeless and unusually cruel task.
TheCurmudgeons Jun 11, 2013 @ 5:23am 
Thanks all - I guess I will just persist with trying to help the newbies out - I have changed my tactics and do the maps I want to do instead of the ones they all seem to want. They have learned enough to know where to get the better weapons. I'm sure that some will persist and then continue with the struggle - others will catch the next free-to-play game out of here. Cheers all and happy defenidng. :>)
Octavia Jun 11, 2013 @ 9:35am 
Originally posted by Tydo:
I have to object a bit there. Gear is make or break in the majority of popular (mmo)RPG, which is what people have most likely played before.
I completely agree about the level bit, mostly it is just a rush to maxlevel, to begin getting in the 'endgame'. Gear still matters there though.

I haven't really played a game where gear was the focal points for anything but the extreme end-game, which not many people got to; I've always been more concerned with levels in those sorts of games, and gear was always on the back of my mind compared to levels. Levels were always a requirement for gear, but gear was difficult to obtain to the point of it being for the small elite or something that was so easy to obtain that it was assumed you had it; but I digress, we've probably just played different sorts of games, and perhaps I'm in the minority there.

Some people, much to my dismay, can't be helped; they're headstrong, refuse to listen and don't read up on games. Some people are like that; I'd suggest just looking for those who are willing to listen to you and absorb knowledge, since they're the ones who are most easily helped, and those who your helping will probably have the largest effect on.
Prophet of Dwight Jun 11, 2013 @ 11:16am 
Why teach them? There are two types of 'newbies' as you have illustrated:
1. The headstrong ones who will not listen, loot everything not pinned down to the ground and on occasion ruin your builds by upgrading the wrong things first or wasting mana at the start of the game.
2. The ones who will immediately stand still and drop their mana for you and watch as you place your auras and traps in certain places to maximise their usage.

The first you cannot do anything with, they are not able to listen and learn by nature, it's too late for you to try and show them the way because ultimately they will get bored of your way and make the same mistakes over and over again.

The second will watch and learn and will soon be hosting their own games trying to farm shards, kg or td themselves.

If you want to teach 'newbies' you have to separate the first from the second and unfortunately remove the first from your game (I don't like to kick, but I will do it if someone upgrades the north and south crystals on sky city when I have built on the middle crystal, attracting the djinn after I have explained 8 times why no one should do that very thing).

Just my opinion, you might not like it because it does require you to shun a portion of the DD community.
Last edited by Prophet of Dwight; Jun 11, 2013 @ 11:17am
TheCurmudgeons Jun 11, 2013 @ 12:07pm 
I only dont like it becaue I remember time and time again getting the boot even though I did think I was doing the right thing - so I try not to kick - only those who go AFK before upgrading, and now also the ones who stand in the mob to acquire an item die and say the lag did it wave after wave. Some will learn something good I hope, if not it keeps me out of trouble anyways. I am also starting to lose patience with crystal sitters, but i dont kick for that.
Prophet of Dwight Jun 11, 2013 @ 12:48pm 
Yeh I think you are having the same issue I did, you want players who will try and up and rep everything they can with the mana available to them during the wave whilst also having the ability to at least distract a mob while a builder rebuilds anything that has been destroyed. They are hard to come by, but when you do find them even the hardest levels seem at least fun and interesting even if you are getting mauled by a boss with a billion hp time after time again.
Softspokenman Jun 11, 2013 @ 2:13pm 
you cant teach people that don't want to take the time to learn
TheCurmudgeons Jun 11, 2013 @ 4:35pm 
Softspokenman - yeah I know - just trying to help out - some might learn the hard way - a few kicks and they might begin to see the light and figure out that I wasnt just being a jerk for trying to help.
Taffer Jun 12, 2013 @ 1:10am 
A friend of mine got the game just yesterday. Power leveled beyond me before I even found out. lol.
TheCurmudgeons Jun 12, 2013 @ 8:20am 
Yeah - they should really put the ogres into the TD strategy map. It might stop some of this leveling without power. It is kinda funny though to see a level 90-100 struggling to build a hard-insane campaign map.
TheCurmudgeons Jun 12, 2013 @ 8:22am 
Oh and before someone tells me to get off my high horse - i mean the early campaign maps. I am struggling to get through a couple on easy still - dont really like the maps and dont give them the time they should have to figure them out.
Octavia Jun 12, 2013 @ 11:12am 
Originally posted by camwigger:
To be totaly honest I leveled my first character to 75 by legitamately doing the maps in order and straight up grinding. However I still have yet to find a full set of armor thats any good. Im still useing mismatched armor and cant find any real better ones in drops. I mean sure I can buy them but I dont have the spare money for the overpriced armors the majority of these people are selling. So really if anyone could tell me a good map or eather mana or armor that would really be great because I can never get a straight answer.

Glitterhelm Hard or Insane, depending on your characters and gear, should be doable fairly easily, at least for Hard; Insane requires some higher stats or multiple characters, but I was soloing Hard with a Countess fairly easily once I hit 70, although I can't remember my stats. If you can't do either, Ramparts Hard or Insane; I'm not sure if there's easier methods for Mana, but you can grind up other characters while doing so, either a damage dealer or builders, so it's not too bad.

Eventually I ended up running the first wave of Nightmare Endless Spires on my Countess, with some Godly gear I had obtained from... I believe Alchemy Lab on Insane Survival, around wave 19 or so. I also had a Ranger built for damage, mainly because the Ogre is the only problem and if you can get rid of everything else and kite him, you're good; after that, I just looted the chests for early Mythicals, got myself to 74 to equip them and then started running Endless Spires with some friends, geared them up and used an Aura Monk, Summoner, EV and Countess as builders with two friends working damage dealers to eventually clear it. Now we can run it to about wave 20 or so on Survival until buffed Wyverns end up creaming us, but the gear is decent and some of us are close to or breaching one thousand or so in Tower Attack. It is worth noting that I did run some challenges on Nightmare, mainly Ogre Crush and Raining Goblins, for a few weapons of acceptable quality, one of which I passed on to a friend in our party to allow her to function as an acceptable damage dealer.

I'm not sure if my method was the best way, as you can apparently prepare yourself for Nightmare even more by getting a decent Seahorse from Insane Aquanos Survival for a damage dealing class, or by hoping Mythical armor drops from higher waves of Insane Survival, and I'm also not sure if Endless Spires is the best map to "break into" Nightmare with, but it worked for me, even without the best of the best.. I certainly wasn't being carried, because I was the one with the best gear for building on my team and ended up doing so until my buddy's Summoner passed mine; if you have friends, it does become easier because you don't need to manage both damage and building, while you also don't need to cover every builder.

I can't offer much advice for doing it solo, as I'd always fall apart on Endless Spires are wave eight or so; granted, I also didn't look at builds for it because I prefer creating my own, so there's that. I'm certain that if you look up a good build and have the right builders, it shouldn't be too difficult to tackle solo after you get some gear from the first few waves.
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Date Posted: Jun 10, 2013 @ 8:29pm
Posts: 38