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KanGore Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:26pm
DOTA 2 matchmaking system = a bad joke
I just suffered one of the worst defeats in a Dota 2 match ever. And it was all because of a Furion who just jungled and refused to help the team. I raged at him only to hear back the most noobish things possible. That made me check his Dota 2 profile and his level. He is level 17. I am level 62 in Dota 2 so this made me wonder how the hell did I get with him in the same team. I thought that maybe in the other team there was a party composed of a high level player and a beginner. That makes sense right? WRONG!!! After the match I checked the levels of all the players in that game. Now get this:

The Dire: (my team)

Lazer’ pew pew – level 37
Spectrum of Eternity – level 37
Monkey D. – level 51
KanGore – level 62
U MaD Bro? :P – level 17


The Radiant: (enemy team)

Sheldon – level 102
Chaos – level 81
Dys – level 60
Suck my left nut –level 46
Robo – level 129


Match ID is: 163735271


The final score was 43-21 for the radiant team.

I am not a programmer nor am I really good at math’s, I don’t develop games or matchmaking algorithms who are kept ultra secret, I never pretended to calculate pixy dust and transform it into an equation that I use in one of my top games BUT I am pretty certain I can add numbers up. If you add the levels in the dire team you end up with 204, for the radiant team the sum of all levels is 418. So roughly double, right? Now look at the final score again. The dire 21 and the radiant 43, roughly double, right? So get this: it seems that if you have a team with a combined level of 400 they get 40 points, if the other team has a combined level of 200 they get 20 points. Yay! And everyone is happy! WRONG AGAIN! I am not happy, in fact I am MaD bro but not at you, at Valve! HOW is this fair?!? How can you pretend that your matchmaking system works even a bit?!? I mean just WHAT is this?!?
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CryHavoc&LetSlipTheCreepsOfWar Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:36pm 
I know what you mean...sometimes you just thing WTF is this matchmaking doing?!
Jack Hoff Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:45pm 
I agree. Maybe 1 in 5 games I play isn't a complete landslide.
Dubesor Apr 1, 2013 @ 9:20pm 
level is completely unrelated to skill level.
KanGore Apr 1, 2013 @ 9:24pm 
Originally posted by 请收藏我们的网址:
level is completely unrelated to skill level.

:*( Please take a look at the results of that match ingame. The only player who didn't die once during that game was Robo which is level 129. He was 7-0 at the end of that game. If level is "completely unrelated to skill level" why wasn't anyone capable of taking out the highest level player in the game?
Last edited by KanGore; Apr 1, 2013 @ 9:26pm
ragebot Apr 1, 2013 @ 9:55pm 
IDK I think its a pretty good joke, tbh. And no, level has literally nothing to do with skill. I would be like level 80 right now if it wasn't for some 3 months I spent in lowpri.
fansrus86 Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:04pm 
Level is only somewhat of a correlation of skill level.

A lot of this is because of the same reasons for it in other games. Some people can play this game for years and still be (relatively) terrible at it. There's also the genre similarity aspect, such that someone being familiar with other moba's will be better than someone who has never played one.

However, Dota2 has the unique situation of being an almost identical clone of it's former. Even Call of duty's have different weapons/maps and they get a new one every year. What this does mean, is that someone, like myself, who played dota for years can jump into this game with only really an adjustment to the interface and be instantly better than most of the people at my level. Which tends to skew the perceived balance of the game. Of course then I have to deal with double treads snipers, but such is life.
KanGore Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:17pm 
Please understand that it's not only about the levels. That guy has more wins than I have matches (1000+) I don't even have a problem with playing against someone like that but please then don't give me a noob in my team who is trying to teach me that Furion is too squishy to take part in ANY team fights at all. And guess what? That Robo guy played Shadow Shaman, a pusher, and we managed to get all 3 tier 1 towers first, mid game. If Furion would have participated in that push at all, even only by sending some treants we could have won. Now here comes the difference, any 100+ level player would have listened to his team begging him to help in any way he could and at least he would have send some treants and maybe we would have gotten a tier 2 and then who knows...
Last edited by KanGore; Apr 1, 2013 @ 11:55pm
Zefar Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:26pm 
People who claim level =/= skill really shouldn't say that in Dota2. It takes quite a bit of time to get level 100+ that time is enough to train anyone to far higher than any low level.

It's like those who claim level 100 people in BF3 are not good. But if you tried a full team of 100 people and the other team with level 50 the 100 team would win.

But I've seen similar matchmaking disasters. Sometimes you just wonder if it would be that much to ask for to be teamed up with people on the same level or same level of wins.
Anterior2 Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:31pm 
Three points:

1. Level =/= skill.

2. Kill/Death ratio =/= skill. All it says is if you played support or carry. I can go 10-0 if I like just by playing it safe all game and killstealing as zeus/invoker.

3. The matchmaker tries to force a 50% win rate on you. If you have been on a winning streak lately, it will put you in a team of clowns to force a loss on you to keep the 50%
Last edited by Anterior2; Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:34pm
Arx Akmarum Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:37pm 
Originally posted by AUS Anterior2:
3. The matchmaker tries to force a 50% win rate on you.

That's not true. No winstreak is going to last indefinitely, nobody is forcing you to lose.
Zukabazuka Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:47pm 
Originally posted by AUS Anterior2:
Three points:

1. Level =/= skill.

2. Kill/Death ratio =/= skill. All it says is if you played support or carry. I can go 10-0 if I like just by playing it safe all game and killstealing as zeus/invoker.

3. The matchmaker tries to force a 50% win rate on you. If you have been on a winning streak lately, it will put you in a team of clowns to force a loss on you to keep the 50%

Buddy so you say junior football league has the same skill as champion fotball league? Since you seems to think time wasted in a game doesn't make you good at it. With very high level comes a lot of time invested.

The higher the level the more time you put in to the game, the more time you have in the game the more you know about the game. If there is one thing I seen in games is high ranked people are often in the top in the games I played.
Arx Akmarum Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:57pm 
Originally posted by Zukabazuka:
The higher the level the more time you put in to the game, the more time you have in the game the more you know about the game. If there is one thing I seen in games is high ranked people are often in the top in the games I played.

Because all humans are learning at same speed.
Dubesor Apr 1, 2013 @ 10:58pm 
You guys should visit the dev forum (http://dev.dota2.com/)

It's mind boggling how wrong some people are about the mechanics and algorithm behind the matchmaking system

Again, battle level has 0 (ZERO) influence on matchmaking. neither do hero stats or performance bars. it's not considered. A level 10 player can be ranked higher than a level 100 player. The game doesn't force a 50%ratio. It will always try to match equal teams against each other. the game does NOT go "mhhh, he won 10 games in a row lets team him with many noobs vs a 5 man group". That's simply not how it works. Again, complaining about getting matched with player who have a lower battle-level is utterly pointless as it is in no way, shape or form an indicator of the players actual skill rating. The current matchmaking system can even detect smurfs and can easily match a level 5 with level 100+ if his match making rating/elo whatever you wanna call it is similar.
KanGore Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:02am 
Originally posted by dubesor:
It will always try to match equal teams against each other.
And how exactly was my team "equal" to the other one who had maybe 3000+ games played in Dota 2 spread amongst them?
[RB] Oneironaut Apr 2, 2013 @ 12:48am 
Level is irrelevant. The number of matches won is what counts.
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Date Posted: Apr 1, 2013 @ 8:26pm
Posts: 221