KillerKrieg Mar 4 @ 1:04pm
Advanced - too easy Expert - too hard?
I have noticed that once you have beaten a campaign on advanced, you tend to succeed while playing advanced almost every time. Advanced becomes boring pretty quickly. However, expert is too far a step in the opposite direction in my opinion. While advanced is boring, expert is simply ridiculous. I really wish that on expert, you only lost 10 health per hit(considering it's only 5 on advanced right?) because isn't 20 points just a LITTLE bit of a drastic leap from 5 for only being one difficulty above it? While I accept that some players are so skilled(or lucky) they have beaten expert, it seems almost impossible to do with any consistency whatsoever. Every once in a while, I am kicking major zombie butt on expert and I actually have a good chunk of health, But when this happens, EVERY SINGLE TIME, someone shoots me. And in situations where I typically don't get shot aswell which is annoying(like going up over the fence right by the roller coaster or heading toward the switch to turn the coaster on etc.) I remember one time I was playing expert, I had just healed when within just a couple of shots from teammates I was back down to the freaking red. This is extremely frustrating because it seems the one time you don't get thrashed by zombies your teammates shoot you a ridiculous amount of times.

Ultimately my point is this: What I wish they would change is the health loss from 20 points down to 10, or at LEAST just 15, but 10 ideally. I personally think going down from 20 hits to a mere 10 from common horde is more than reasonable enough to still give the infected a solid chance, while the game would be more than difficult enough to justify another difficulty level, because on expert you simply can't afford to lose 20 freaking points of health everytime someone gets that syndrome where you are "immediately frightening" and they shoot you once per-encounter.(This might fly just fine in Left 4 Dead where there is only 3 specials, but not in L4D2 where you are typically dealing with about 4 specials who can potentially grab you at a time.) This is the one thing I would ever change about Left 4 Dead 2 if given creative control.
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TheMasterBlaster™ Mar 4 @ 1:08pm 
I have always felt there needs to be an inbetween difficulty level. I also play leisurely on advanced but find expert almost a completely different game. I have the skill to play expert but it takes so long I tend to settle for advanced.
[NK] General Bacca Mar 4 @ 1:12pm 
i agree with you, i played blood harvest on advanced and i had to ask other players wheather i joined a 'normal' game because it was way too easy. it was so easy i went through the campaign running and gunning through hordes and still fairly easily surviveing, it was probebly easier for me anyway as i usually play on expert (although rarely surviving a whole campaign on it) but still i think the jump between the two is too big
Rureki Mar 4 @ 1:25pm 
I want a Very Easy setting. They should consider it for the eventual L4D3. I think I was lucky not to get booted off from one of the campaigns on Easy. My very first game. Its too harsh, I was trying to learn the game, get my bearings and fighting veteran players' expectations as well just added to the difficulty. They knew where to go and what to do. The two more experienced players I'm referring to initiated a kick vote for the fourth player, which I voted against, and that kept him on the server. Best thing to happen though was that I survived and managed to save one of the veterans as he was about to fall on the bridge run portion near the ending.
Visi Mar 4 @ 1:48pm 
Originally posted by Rureki:
I want a Very Easy setting. They should consider it for the eventual L4D3. I think I was lucky not to get booted off from one of the campaigns on Easy. My very first game. Its too harsh, I was trying to learn the game, get my bearings and fighting veteran players' expectations as well just added to the difficulty. They knew where to go and what to do. The two more experienced players I'm referring to initiated a kick vote for the fourth player, which I voted against, and that kept him on the server. Best thing to happen though was that I survived and managed to save one of the veterans as he was about to fall on the bridge run portion near the ending.
Consider playing in singleplayer until you become familiar with the game and campaigns to avoid situations like that.
lol.Killer5^p [no monitor] Mar 4 @ 3:22pm 
I think once you put in the time to learn to ♥♥♥♥ Expert then you will change your mind. However...

Yep. FF sucks on expert. But it is something that you have to deal with. And something that you can avoid even with new players. You just need to be mindful of a few things:

- New players run backwards while shooting. NEVER stand directly behind them.
- If people are shooting at the top of a ladder wait... you will climb into their bullets.
- ALWAYS wait to run through a doorway until the people spamming have to reload.
- If you are getting caught in situations where you are completely surrounded by zombies and people are shooting around you review where you were and what happened. I am almost never caught in the open surrounded by zombies, outside of parish 5 or coldstream 2/4, on a campaign I know.
- I dunno your playstyle... people starting out on expert tend to use melee weapons recklessly by running into the fray... then they get shot by other new players or people too focused on kills.

I have a bible of crap made up in my head about how to avoid FF now... cant recall everything until i am in the game =). But I hope this helps.
Sega Mar 4 @ 3:57pm 
Front damage on Expert is 20, back damage is 10. Just walk backwards. LOL.

Seriously though, expert is the best, but I think they should have a time requirement, or a minimum of all advanced levels completed before you can play expert. I often find myself reviewing other players hours before I play with them. Sad I know, but to many nubs in expert shooting you, it's lame. Try playing an expert realism game, the caliber of players jumps up exponentially on expert realism, and once you find good players, friend them. The difference between an expert game with nubs and experience 'expert' players is night and day.
Last edited by Sega; Mar 4 @ 3:57pm
MasterOfPeelz Mar 4 @ 4:00pm 
Originally posted by KillerKrieg:
I have noticed that once you have beaten a campaign on advanced, you tend to succeed while playing advanced almost every time. Advanced becomes boring pretty quickly. However, expert is too far a step in the opposite direction in my opinion. While advanced is boring, expert is simply ridiculous. I really wish that on expert, you only lost 10 health per hit(considering it's only 5 on advanced right?) because isn't 20 points just a LITTLE bit of a drastic leap from 5 for only being one difficulty above it? While I accept that some players are so skilled(or lucky) they have beaten expert, it seems almost impossible to do with any consistency whatsoever. Every once in a while, I am kicking major zombie butt on expert and I actually have a good chunk of health, But when this happens, EVERY SINGLE TIME, someone shoots me. And in situations where I typically don't get shot aswell which is annoying(like going up over the fence right by the roller coaster or heading toward the switch to turn the coaster on etc.) I remember one time I was playing expert, I had just healed when within just a couple of shots from teammates I was back down to the freaking red. This is extremely frustrating because it seems the one time you don't get thrashed by zombies your teammates shoot you a ridiculous amount of times.

Ultimately my point is this: What I wish they would change is the health loss from 20 points down to 10, or at LEAST just 15, but 10 ideally. I personally think going down from 20 hits to a mere 10 from common horde is more than reasonable enough to still give the infected a solid chance, while the game would be more than difficult enough to justify another difficulty level, because on expert you simply can't afford to lose 20 freaking points of health everytime someone gets that syndrome where you are "immediately frightening" and they shoot you once per-encounter.(This might fly just fine in Left 4 Dead where there is only 3 specials, but not in L4D2 where you are typically dealing with about 4 specials who can potentially grab you at a time.) This is the one thing I would ever change about Left 4 Dead 2 if given creative control.

Just to that part of zombie damage

Front hit from zombies: 20 hp lost

Hit back/side: 10 dmg

SI's do 20 dmg for melee so its not that hard, the only problem you are going to face for Si is Charger,Jockey,Boomer,Hunter, and smoker

Spiiter is easy to avoid if your not Charged/down/smoked/pinned/Jockeyed.

Witch is a instakill (Obviously) and can be crowned/molly'ed/fire gas can'ed/avoided

Tanks are a inst-down and can take 2 hits to kill you while you are down, but if the tank is molly'ed or fire gas canned they will die of fire in 2 mins or 40 secs, (Somwhere around that)
♥ JuJu ♥ Mar 4 @ 4:20pm 
Realism on Expert... i cant wait til im that good!
Restless Mar 4 @ 4:22pm 
Play Hard Eight on Advanced if you have friends looking for a challenge between Advanced and Expert. Expert is not too hard at 20/10 damage a hit, it just requires a way higher level of play than Advanced does.
Last edited by Restless; Mar 4 @ 4:23pm
KillerKrieg Mar 4 @ 5:21pm 
Interesting ideas on avoiding FF. The times I usually get hit by it are completely uncalled for usually though. Nothing is happening, no zombies around. I just happen to come on screen a little and get hit. Most of the time when i come on most people's screen for a moment they have the decency not to shoot me, and likewise to them too. FF incidents are pretty rare with me and as a result I have a tendency to not kill too many common infected early on because I have noticed players beside myself have a tendency to get in my line of fire during horde attacks and it prevents me from laying down cover. I figure not shooting at all in a certain instance is better than risking hitting your teammate with the high powered FF on expert. I have a couple of bible verses myself, obviously never run through/ahead of someone without telling them because they have a tendency to freak out, generally try to stay away from people's line of fire(and not run in a straight "line") and, in general try to move around behind people as much as you can because obviously coming across the screen startles some people. I will try Hard 8 on advanced Restless, thanks for the suggestion.
KillerKrieg Mar 4 @ 5:24pm 
And I know that I am not getting hit when I do on purpose. You see it on advanced all the time, an accidental shot every once and a while but it cannot be afforded on Expert. It would also be an interesting solution to the problem to be able to turn friendly fire off, that would make it easier for newer players to learn the ropes. Oh, and how could I have not said thank you guys for the info about only taking 10 hp from hits from behind, I will try to use that to my advantage.
Last edited by KillerKrieg; Mar 4 @ 5:30pm
Dr Chaos MK Mar 4 @ 6:38pm 
Expert CAN be cleared with bots. It is how I got my achievement, since none of my friends had interest in Expert at the time I was. Of course you have to work harder since bots are not that great in L4D 2 ( We can all hope Valve does better in L4D 3 ) & it can be frustrating.
Ninjabutter Mar 4 @ 9:14pm 
Originally posted by KillerKrieg:
It would also be an interesting solution to the problem to be able to turn friendly fire off, that would make it easier for newer players to learn the ropes.

That's what Easy is for, and friendly fire is indeed disabled on Easy. The rare time I play on Easy for whatever reason, I often do it with a grenade launcher and just fire shells point-blank for fun.

I think it's assumed that you no longer need to figure out the fundamentals of the game by the time you're playing on Expert.
KillerKrieg Mar 5 @ 12:00am 
True. Easy does have FF turned off, but, if advanced is too easy, then easy is a cakewalk in the park.
Jon Mar 5 @ 12:11pm 
Personally i believe that the difficulty of expert is just right, its advanced that needs changing. If they were to change anything it should be somewhere along the lines of:
Amatuer - easy diffucluty now
Easy - medium diffuculty now
Medium - advanced difficulty now
Advanced - 10 damage as you were saying
Pro - 15 damage
Expert - same as it is now

The reason i dont think it should be changed as i know people (including myself when i am in the zone) or generally people with 500+ campain hours, who can complete an expert level without getting hit, and get through a 5 level campain using only the 1 medkit per level (or less) To nerf expert (especially on realism) would ruin the game for the hardcore players
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Date Posted: Mar 4 @ 1:04pm
Posts: 27