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Why Denuvo will render your games unplayable (even with bypasses)
THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DENUVO THREAD. DO NOT POST ANY MORE, IF YOU HAVE TO, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION AND POST IN SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS
Originally posted by Tito Shivan (Steam Moderator):
Unfortunately, when I was merging your two threads I botched it (accidents happen) and was left with no option but to remove it from view. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Feel free to keep discussing the subject on any of the already existing threads.

Before you read on, Let me ask you three questions.
1.) Do you think you'll be using Windows for the rest of your life?

2.) Do you believe that Denuvo's authentication servers (maintained by Sony) which allow you to play your games will remain up?

3.) Do you believe that Square Enix, Take Two, Konami (lol), Activision, Warner Brothers, Zenimax, Electronic Arts and Ubisoft will absolutely stay in business?

These three factors combined could be devastating to your ability to play anything that utilizes Denuvo.


EMULATION
Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:
Denuvo stops games from supporting Linux or OS X. Not only do the publishers not release ports, but using Denuvo means third parties like the Wine project can't support them either. Games like Inside, the sequel to Limbo, are an example of Denuvo stopping Linux support. Limbo supported Linux and OS X, and Inside is built using Unity engine which can easily make Linux builds. But because they are using Denuvo, it can't be played on any other operating system. Another example is Doom 2016. The beta version worked great on Linux when used with Wine project. But the final release came encumbered with Denuvo, effectively stopping Wine from supporting the game on Linux and OS X.

DENUVO

Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:
If at some point in the future any part of their DRM service chain is shut down due to internet outage or a company going bankrupt, games will be inaccessible. Some people reply "but surely these companies will provide a method access if they are shutting down servers!" If a company is in bankruptcy and there's an outcry to get patches out for 15 year old games, I doubt they're going to make it a priority to devote resources and development time to creating patches. It wouldn't be the first time a library of DRM-encumbered crapware went poof.

Given that Denuvo was created by the team behind SecuROM, a DRM solution that was abandoned after only five years, it's fair to say that the same could be done to Denuvo's servers. Alternatively, Denuvo could go down due to Sony's bankruptcy (which is possible since they're bleeding money and the only division of their company that makes any money anymore is Sony Interactive Entertainment which is entirely separate from Sony DADC DigitalWorks)

Let's just say that there's a reason why Sony Interactive Entertainment is legally separated from the main company.
https://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/01/02/sony-has-78-chance-to-go-bankrupt-in-two-years-says-macroaxis/
"The PlayStation Company: why Sony should ditch almost everything else"
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/19/8068607/sony-should-focus-on-ps4

Also here's some articles about what a similar shutdown did to PC games (fortunately it was only an auth server and not DRM so users were able to tamper with the executable and get things working again). Sure, things like SecuROM and GameSpy got patched out in some cases, but not all, even by Electronic Arts.
http://www.pcgamer.com/reddit-compiles-terrifying-list-of-games-affected-by-gamespy-shutdown/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/08/gamespy-shutdown-list-borderlands-halo-battlefield/
http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-gamespy-shutdown-update/

"THE STUDIOS WILL PATCH IT OUT" ARGUMENT

I'll just use this forum interaction to make my point.
Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:
Alexander, can you elaborate me what is limitation of denuvo in Tales of Berseria, for example? Because I'm enjoying the game since D1 (it's one of my fav jRPG's released on steam so far) and I have no problems whatsoever. I can use all Kalaiden mods which enhance graphics quality etc. I can play it when offline. Please, enlight me, what is the problem, because I can't see any.

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Ask me in 10 years when Denuvo shuts down (which is incredibly likely considering the same people behind Denuvo developed SecuROM, which was abandoned after 5 years). I have games that are unplayable thanks to awful DRM practices that released less than 10 years ago.

It sucks and it was just two years ago that GameSpy's authentication server shut down, resulting in hundreds of games across PC and consoles being shut down. If it weren't for the auth server going down, we could play those games through LAN. Instead, people have to go through a ton of effort to create their own servers and spoof it. Something that wouldn't be possible with Denuvo mind you.

Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:
You can't compare those two, don't forget, behind all of this there is a Valve with steam as well, so I doubt there will be similar situation. And it's already proven (Doom) that denuvo can be easy removed from the game - so I'm not worried, TBH.

So inherently you want to leave Metal Gear Solid 5's future up to Konami? A company that left the gaming industry? What about NieR Automata and Square Enix, a company that almost went bankrupt several years ago thanks to the original Final Fantasy XIV, (not A Realm Reborn) tanking, the 10 years of Final Fantasy XV development running them dry and still is at financial risk due to the commercial failures of Just Cause 3, HITMAN 2016 and Deus Ex Mankind Divided along with that cancelled Sleeping Dogs MMO they were making?

What about THQ and Sierra and Interplay, companies that were at the top of the world back in the 1990s and early 2000s? If Denuvo were in any of their games and Denuvo shut down, customers would be begging whoever still owned the IPs to release Denuvo-free executables (which may not even exist at that point in time).

----------------------------------------

BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE CRACKS I KEEP HEARING ABOUT?
Denuvo cracks do not remove Denuvo and I doubt they ever will. They're only "cracked enough" to play. Due to this, it restricts emulation through WINE/Parallels or anything that may release in the future which will be incredibly important if and when Windows gets abandoned as I believe people will at the first viable opportunity (which I find increasingly more likely now that Amazon is investing in Linux and Google is working on merging Android with ChromeOS)

RECIPE FOR DISASTER
I've always said that the year of the Linux desktop wouldn't happen until someone like Google or Amazon got involved.... And now they have. Combine the migration away from Windows, the volatility of developers/studios that may not have DRM-free copies of their games 20 years into the future along with Denuvo's shutdown which is reliant on whether or not Sony continues to spend money hosting those authentication servers with the restrictions that Denuvo imposes on emulation regardless of whether the game has been cracked and you have the ultimate recipe for disaster.

Who knows. Your quantum processor from the year of 2035 may not support Windows XP/7/8/10 so even if you wanted to dualboot, you'd be out of luck.

"LMAO WHO CARES ABOUT OLD GAMES"
Some people may treat their purchases as flavor of the month disposable products but many of us like to play our games decades after they were released.

Imagine a world where DOOM (1993 version) had something like Denuvo and the things I've detailed actually happened. Sure, you could dig out the Super Nintendo and play it, but you'd be playing the inferior version without the thousands of mods that exist for it. Imagine if a PC exclusive like Warcraft 3 was unplayable. Sounds like a nightmare.

Something to think about.

PROPOSED SOLUTION

Valve could impose a mandate on all future releases that requires developers/publishers to give them a DRM-free copy of their game to be released in the event of Denuvo's auth server going down or when the studio/publisher releasing their game goes bankrupt (in the interest of their customers who ultimately suffer) or Microsoft locks down their operating systems and the market share shifts away from Windows (in the interest of allowing us to emulate games that don't get official ports)

This would ultimately benefit Steam users as a whole because while Valve has measures in place for the day Steam goes down (not detailed, unknown how it works), every game released after the mandate would be protected and playable under any scenario that may occur.
Last edited by Alexander DeLarge; Mar 15 @ 1:44pm
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Showing 61-75 of 247 comments
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Originally posted by Erebus the Inexorable:
People care about fifa?

They do. Just not on PC. Dudebro sports game players don't build PCs. Go figure.

lots ppl play on ♥♥♥♥ing pc too u POS
OK im done. i hv fun hahahah/ LATER U POS. PEACE OUT
Originally posted by 2B <<This cannot continue>>:
Originally posted by Vayne:

pretty much lies lies n lies. u just hate denuvo
There are literally retail PC games you can no longer even own much less play because of past DRM this is 100% true why are you trying so hard to give out false info and mislead people?

Don't mind him. He's just s**tposting (poorly I may add, 0/10, apply some effort at least).
Originally posted by Vayne:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

They do. Just not on PC. Dudebro sports game players don't build PCs. Go figure.

lots ppl play on ♥♥♥♥ing pc too u POS
South Americans that can't afford the new consoles. Explaining why it's played on PC and they're still releasing some of those sports games for the Playstation 2/3 in 2017.

Go look at the hardware requirements.

Nothing against anyone that likes these games or consumes them, they're just not exactly a priority for pirate groups.
Last edited by Alexander DeLarge; Mar 11 @ 3:26am
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
[

Originally posted by TheMadKitten:
How does it holds up against newer titles ? You know, that one that's meant to realease for newer consoles ?
How does your PC from the 2000s built for the original Deus Ex hold up against a game like Deus Ex Mankind Divided? Not an argument.
Well, my current laptop that run Crysis is still holding up pretty good against 75% of today's games, thanks for asking
The thing is, with PC, if your spec is good enough you need little to no updrage at all
Console, may be it's still all right years ago, when there's not like ... 20 of them on the market
Now, Im not sure
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Originally posted by 2B <<This cannot continue>>:
There are literally retail PC games you can no longer even own much less play because of past DRM this is 100% true why are you trying so hard to give out false info and mislead people?

Don't mind him. He's just s**tposting (poorly I may add, 0/10, apply some effort at least).
Like originally I was gonna just post that I think hes one of the people that get paid to go around spreading support for Denuvo however his post are farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr too poorly written to be paid for. Also hes just literally spouting lies so my guess is hes just uneducated and needs to validate his purchase by latching on to something to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about.
Originally posted by TheMadKitten:
Well, my current laptop that run Crysis is still holding up pretty good against 75% of today's games, thanks for asking
The thing is, with PC, if your spec is good enough you need little to no updrage at all
Console, may be it's still all right years ago, when there's not like ... 20 of them on the market
Now, Im not sure

75% of games including pixel art indie platformers? Sure. Modern AAA titles at the standards of what people would deem acceptable (not running it at 640x480 with ini tweaks to make Fallout 4 look like this?) No.
https://youtu.be/HuKPAu84HkI
Given the fact that you'll latching on sth to justifiy your not-purchase, well ...
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

75% of games including pixel art indie platformers? Sure. Modern AAA titles at the standards of what people would deem acceptable (not running it at 640x480 with ini tweaks to make Fallout 4 look like this?) No.
https://youtu.be/HuKPAu84HkI
Well, what can I say, Im happy with what I got
Even if I have to run it on a potatoe, as long as I can play it 40fps then Im good
Originally posted by TheMadKitten:
Given the fact that you'll latching on sth to justifiy your not-purchase, well ...
This isn't my main account :P also I already own this on PS4 want spoilers to prove my point? Hell techincally my name is one even.
Last edited by Angelo The Edgehog; Mar 11 @ 3:35am
Originally posted by TheMadKitten:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

75% of games including pixel art indie platformers? Sure. Modern AAA titles at the standards of what people would deem acceptable (not running it at 640x480 with ini tweaks to make Fallout 4 look like this?) No.
https://youtu.be/HuKPAu84HkI
Well, what can I say, Im happy with what I got
Even if I have to run it on a potatoe, as long as I can play it 40fps then Im good

If you're happy with it, that's great. I'm all for PCs being able to run things from 10-20 years ago and I'd like to see more games that can run 10-20 years into the future on current hardware...


That's why I'm♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥about Denuvo and things like SecuROM (both hypothetically and in practice) preventing me from enjoying content I paid for.
Hold on, what's all this with Denuvo not allowing mods and whatnot? Whenever I read that, I get the feeling people mean it works like an MMO anti-cheat engine, where it will block attempts from third party programs to modify the game in any way. I have some Denuvo games and I use tweaking tools for all of them, all the time. Never had a single problem.

Most of them might not affect the executable directly, but tweaking tools are actively applying changes while you play. The FPS cap, for example, can be very easily overwritten with NVIDIA Inspector/RadeonPro.

Also, is there any new information on the resolution lock? I found an interview from AUGUST, which is very outdated by now, where they confirmed it would be locked at 1080p/60 FPS. A lot could've changed since and since it's Square Enix publishing, they could twist Platinum's arm on this one. They have to have learned something from the FFXIII trilogy ports, since they unlocked the resolution for XIII and didn't lock it for XIII-2 and LR.
Erebus Mar 11 @ 4:00am 
Originally posted by caelumsixsmith:
Hold on, what's all this with Denuvo not allowing mods and whatnot?
You can't touch the EXE. It doesn't fully block mods, but anything meaningful (say longterm community fix type stuff, hexedits, and the like) are impossible as long as Denuvo is in-place.
Originally posted by Erebus the Inexorable:
Originally posted by caelumsixsmith:
Hold on, what's all this with Denuvo not allowing mods and whatnot?
You can't touch the EXE. It doesn't fully block mods, but anything meaningful (say longterm community fix type stuff, hexedits, and the like) are impossible as long as Denuvo is in-place.
This is 100% correct you can use things such as .dll hooks but nothing more making higher quality mods such as the Dark Souls fix for PC seemly impossible if its ever needed again and the game has Denuvo.
manic221 Mar 11 @ 4:32am 
It's superior because as Digital Foundry confirmed in there video even the pro cannot properly maintain 60fps at all times and only has basic AA enabled where as standard PS4 has none runs at 900p and is even worse

Going by Platinum Games previous titles the Pc version will be completely locked at 60 and have multiple levels of SSAA so resolution may not be superior (but this info is from an almost 12 month old video) but all other parts will be
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Date Posted: Mar 11 @ 2:34am
Posts: 249