NieR:Automata™

NieR:Automata™

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How Denuvo gives NieR Automata (and other titles) expiration dates
First and foremost, NieR Automata is literally the best game I have ever played..... And now I'm even more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off about the DRM giving it an expiration date. This game deserves to be playable a hundred years into the future, if not more. Denuvo prevents that.
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Before you read on, Let me ask you three questions.
1.) Do you think you'll be using Windows for the rest of your life?

2.) Do you believe that Denuvo's authentication servers (maintained by Sony) which allow you to play your games will remain up?

3.) Do you believe that Square Enix, Take Two, Konami (lol), Activision, Warner Brothers, Zenimax, Electronic Arts and Ubisoft will absolutely stay in business?

These three factors combined could be devastating to your ability to play anything that utilizes Denuvo.


EMULATION
Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:
Denuvo stops games from supporting Linux or OS X. Not only do the publishers not release ports, but using Denuvo means third parties like the Wine project can't support them either. Games like Inside, the sequel to Limbo, are an example of Denuvo stopping Linux support. Limbo supported Linux and OS X, and Inside is built using Unity engine which can easily make Linux builds. But because they are using Denuvo, it can't be played on any other operating system. Another example is Doom 2016. The beta version worked great on Linux when used with Wine project. But the final release came encumbered with Denuvo, effectively stopping Wine from supporting the game on Linux and OS X.

DENUVO

Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:
If at some point in the future any part of their DRM service chain is shut down due to internet outage or a company going bankrupt, games will be inaccessible. Some people reply "but surely these companies will provide a method access if they are shutting down servers!" If a company is in bankruptcy and there's an outcry to get patches out for 15 year old games, I doubt they're going to make it a priority to devote resources and development time to creating patches. It wouldn't be the first time a library of DRM-encumbered crapware went poof.

Given that Denuvo was created by the team behind SecuROM, a DRM solution that was abandoned after only five years, it's fair to say that the same could be done to Denuvo's servers. Alternatively, Denuvo could go down due to Sony's bankruptcy (which is possible since they're bleeding money and the only division of their company that makes any money anymore is Sony Interactive Entertainment which is entirely separate from Sony DADC DigitalWorks)

Let's just say that there's a reason why Sony Interactive Entertainment is legally separated from the main company.
https://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/01/02/sony-has-78-chance-to-go-bankrupt-in-two-years-says-macroaxis/
"The PlayStation Company: why Sony should ditch almost everything else"
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/19/8068607/sony-should-focus-on-ps4

Also here's some articles about what a similar shutdown did to PC games (fortunately it was only an auth server and not DRM so users were able to tamper with the executable and get things working again). Sure, things like SecuROM and GameSpy got patched out in some cases, but not all, even by Electronic Arts.
http://www.pcgamer.com/reddit-compiles-terrifying-list-of-games-affected-by-gamespy-shutdown/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/08/gamespy-shutdown-list-borderlands-halo-battlefield/
http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-gamespy-shutdown-update/

"THE STUDIOS WILL PATCH IT OUT" ARGUMENT

I'll just use this forum interaction to make my point.
Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:
Alexander, can you elaborate me what is limitation of denuvo in Tales of Berseria, for example? Because I'm enjoying the game since D1 (it's one of my fav jRPG's released on steam so far) and I have no problems whatsoever. I can use all Kalaiden mods which enhance graphics quality etc. I can play it when offline. Please, enlight me, what is the problem, because I can't see any.

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Ask me in 10 years when Denuvo shuts down (which is incredibly likely considering the same people behind Denuvo developed SecuROM, which was abandoned after 5 years). I have games that are unplayable thanks to awful DRM practices that released less than 10 years ago.

It sucks and it was just two years ago that GameSpy's authentication server shut down, resulting in hundreds of games across PC and consoles being shut down. If it weren't for the auth server going down, we could play those games through LAN. Instead, people have to go through a ton of effort to create their own servers and spoof it. Something that wouldn't be possible with Denuvo mind you.

Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:
You can't compare those two, don't forget, behind all of this there is a Valve with steam as well, so I doubt there will be similar situation. And it's already proven (Doom) that denuvo can be easy removed from the game - so I'm not worried, TBH.

So inherently you want to leave Metal Gear Solid 5's future up to Konami? A company that left the gaming industry? What about NieR Automata and Square Enix, a company that almost went bankrupt several years ago thanks to the original Final Fantasy XIV, (not A Realm Reborn) tanking, the 10 years of Final Fantasy XV development running them dry and still is at financial risk due to the commercial failures of Just Cause 3, HITMAN 2016 and Deus Ex Mankind Divided along with that cancelled Sleeping Dogs MMO they were making?

What about THQ and Sierra and Interplay, companies that were at the top of the world back in the 1990s and early 2000s? If Denuvo were in any of their games and Denuvo shut down, customers would be begging whoever still owned the IPs to release Denuvo-free executables (which may not even exist at that point in time).

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BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE BYPASSES I KEEP HEARING ABOUT?
Denuvo bypasses do not remove Denuvo and I doubt they ever will. They're only "cracked enough" to play. Due to this, it restricts emulation through WINE/Parallels or anything that may release in the future which will be incredibly important if and when Windows gets abandoned as I believe people will at the first viable opportunity (which I find increasingly more likely now that Amazon is investing in Linux and Google is working on merging Android with ChromeOS)

RECIPE FOR DISASTER
I've always said that the year of the Linux desktop wouldn't happen until someone like Google or Amazon got involved.... And now they have. Combine the migration away from Windows, the volatility of developers/studios that may not have DRM-free copies of their games 20 years into the future along with Denuvo's shutdown which is reliant on whether or not Sony continues to spend money hosting those authentication servers with the restrictions that Denuvo imposes on emulation regardless of whether the game has been cracked and you have the ultimate recipe for disaster.

Who knows. Your quantum processor from the year of 2035 may not support Windows XP/7/8/10 so even if you wanted to dualboot, you'd be out of luck.

"LMAO WHO CARES ABOUT OLD GAMES"
Some people may treat their purchases as flavor of the month disposable products but many of us like to play our games decades after they were released.

Imagine a world where DOOM (1993 version) had something like Denuvo and the things I've detailed actually happened. Sure, you could dig out the Super Nintendo and play it, but you'd be playing the inferior version without the thousands of mods that exist for it. Imagine if a PC exclusive like Warcraft 3 was unplayable. Sounds like a nightmare.

Something to think about.

PROPOSED SOLUTION

Valve could impose a mandate on all future releases that requires developers/publishers to give them a DRM-free copy of their game to be released in the event of Denuvo's auth server going down or when the studio/publisher releasing their game goes bankrupt (in the interest of their customers who ultimately suffer) or Microsoft locks down their operating systems and the market share shifts away from Windows (in the interest of allowing us to emulate games that don't get official ports)

This would ultimately benefit Steam users as a whole because while Valve has measures in place for the day Steam goes down (not detailed, unknown how it works), every game released after the mandate would be protected and playable under any scenario that may occur.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=884415097

B-BUT THEY'LL REMOVE IT WHEN IT BECOMES AN ISSUE
Originally posted by Gregory:
Originally posted by olly:
Denuvo will likely be removed at some point, thats what most games do. Just to protect the initial sales because that is where all the money is made/lost.
Give me a few games besides Doom and Inside that did it.Who else removed Denuvo so far?Meanwhile 25+ games got cracked to this day.Sure....they will remove it.......never.

tl;dr 89 pages of Denuvo apologists

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Justify the fact that we'll be emulating otherwise perfectly playable PC games on the consoles they were released for. Seriously, go ahead.

If this is all in the name of "eliminating piracy during a launch window", why not ♥♥♥♥ing remove it once it has been bypassed? There's no reason for Denuvo to remain in HITMAN, or Deus Ex Mankind Divided (though those games got Linux ports that removed Denuvo so that's nice) or Metal Gear Solid 5 or Dragon Age Inquisition or Mass Effect Andromeda or Just Cause 3 or *insert one of the 25 Denuvo titles that have been bypassed that never received removal patches*

When Nier Automata is inevitably bypassed, what's the justification for Denuvo not being patched out?
Originally posted by Daddy and Son:

Because the publishers do not want to, they don't care if you can play your game in the future, they want you to buy new games in that future. And since Denuvo has not been proven to decrease sales, and the publisher have what ever information they have about how they get increased sales when preventing piracy for as long as possible, they have no reason to remove it if they really do not care.

So fundamentally you admit you're defending a corporation's right to ♥♥♥♥ customers in the ♥♥♥?

Update 4/3/2017: In other news, Android just surpassed Windows and became the world's most popular operating system today
https://9to5google.com/2017/04/03/android-windows-most-popular-operating-system/

Update: Bayonetta released on Steam with no Denuvo and it's the #1 seller globally.... And we have our own resident poster iemander posting "Why doesn't this game have Denuvo?" on their forums
http://steamcommunity.com/app/460790/discussions/0/135514151379166578/?tscn=1491936924
Last edited by twitch.tv/Gam3rGrrrrrrrl; Apr 11 @ 11:56am
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Showing 1-15 of 1,508 comments
Syad Mar 4 @ 1:56am 
servers going down.
They said that about Steam too.
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
In the dark not too distant future... People will be playing Metal Gear Solid V along with many other Denuvo titles on their PS4s because it's unplayable thanks to Denuvo servers going down. It is entirely up to the publisher to remove Denuvo if it were to stop working. Do you trust Konami to remove it from MGSV? How about Square Enix?
https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/

Says someone with atleast 3 games with Denuvo in their library.
Wafflez Mar 4 @ 5:06am 
Sorry you can't steal the game OP :(
Vayne Mar 4 @ 5:13am 
Oh just shut up. No one care. Denuvo hater is minority. Publisher wont care about u
steam can still be ran in offline mode. even after world war 3 when america and china turn each other into radioactive craters, the pockets of civilization in the rest of the world that will still remain will be able to set their steam to offline mode and go about their daily lives.
woots Mar 4 @ 7:57am 
Originally posted by Syad:
servers going down.
They said that about Steam too.

Steam "owning" yours games, is indeed also a terribad issue.
If you have an issue with your account, you are f#ed you dont have anything left, nor cant even access your own game.

for that point. steam also is a real cancer.

Denuvo, its the same thing, what do you think what's going to happen the day denuvo shutdown ? do you think the devs will bother provide a denuvo free .exe for your game ?

honestly, i doubt that.

Personaly, i gather as much "way" possible to play the game i've bought without thoses cancer steam-like.
like that, no matter what happen, i will always have access to MY games.

Originally posted by Vayne:
Oh just shut up. No one care. Denuvo hater is minority. Publisher wont care about u

At they start to care seeing denuvo games going down one after another :]
Last edited by woots; Mar 4 @ 7:58am
Lodreus Mar 4 @ 8:11am 
I just pre-ordered it :)
Originally posted by dannyj54147:
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
In the dark not too distant future... People will be playing Metal Gear Solid V along with many other Denuvo titles on their PS4s because it's unplayable thanks to Denuvo servers going down. It is entirely up to the publisher to remove Denuvo if it were to stop working. Do you trust Konami to remove it from MGSV? How about Square Enix?
https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/

Says someone with atleast 3 games with Denuvo in their library.
From various hardware deals because I've built two dozen PCs in the last year. Should I throw those keys in the trash? Literally free games.
Last edited by twitch.tv/Gam3rGrrrrrrrl; Mar 4 @ 9:13am
Originally posted by Wafflez:
Sorry you can't steal the game OP :(

What are the chances that someone with 1100 games on Steam is a pirate?

I got the Black Box Edition for $189. Not only am I buying the game, I'm buying it twice.

Originally posted by Syad:
servers going down.
They said that about Steam too.
I still do say that about Steam though I'm fairly at ease since they've said there are measures in place for the day Steam goes down.
Last edited by twitch.tv/Gam3rGrrrrrrrl; Mar 4 @ 9:10am
they want 60 bucks from me and rteat me like a criminal? no thanks.
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
Originally posted by Wafflez:
Sorry you can't steal the game OP :(

What are the chances that someone with 1100 games on Steam is a pirate?

I got the Black Box Edition for $189. Not only am I buying the game, I'm buying it twice.

Originally posted by Syad:
They said that about Steam too.
I still do say that about Steam though I'm fairly at ease since they've said there are measures in place for the day Steam goes down.

Its the default message of denuvo shills (astroturfers), don't mind them.

When they can't back up their arguments they'll just resource to Ad Hominens, see Antitype on the other thread.
Izziee Mar 4 @ 9:21am 
Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:
In the dark not too distant future... People will be playing Metal Gear Solid V along with many other Denuvo titles on their PS4s because it's unplayable thanks to Denuvo servers going down. It is entirely up to the publisher to remove Denuvo if it were to stop working. Do you trust Konami to remove it from MGSV? How about Square Enix?
https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/

Sigh.

Denuvo is a short term gain. Publishers only care about the first few weeks as a games release is what drives the majority of sales.
Kite Mar 4 @ 9:22am 
Originally posted by Lodreus:
I just pre-ordered it :)
I might as well too. I probably have better odds of getting struck by lightning than Denuvo servers permanently going down.
Last edited by Kite; Mar 4 @ 9:22am
Lodreus Mar 4 @ 9:29am 
Originally posted by Kite:
Originally posted by Lodreus:
I just pre-ordered it :)
I might as well too. I probably have better odds of getting struck by lightning than Denuvo servers permanently going down.

Well seeing as I got some games that has Denuvo. I don't see point in me not pre-ordering this. I can't recall a time where i had issues with Denuvo. Maybe cuz I never knew about it or didn't care much for it. I still got to play my game and enjoy it.


DxSpark Mar 4 @ 9:29am 
♥♥♥♥ Steam and Steamworks and ♥♥♥♥ Denuvo cancer.

Thankfully, crackers are understanding the DRM now and they will remove it on older games I'm sure.
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Date Posted: Mar 4 @ 1:52am
Posts: 1,508