Natural Selection 2 > 一般的な話題 > トピックの詳細
Rainer Baedal 2013年10月5日 15時22分
Aliens nerfed to hard?
Ok there is something wrong here. Marines seem to win almost every time. Not saying it's not possible or that I've never seen Aliens win, but lets just use the standard pug game. The amount of resources required by Aliens is way higher than it's ever been before. The things that use to delay marines from quick expansion seem to all be missing like lurk gas, all pushed toward the end. Instead we substitued these aspects with the gorge tunnel.

The speed at which Marines tech up vs. Aliens just seems insanely unbalanced to me. Especially since Aliens are tech capped. Marines have been decapped no longer needing two tech points for their jets or exos. Wtf...

Maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about here I have no numbers to look at. I can see why a lot of people are quiting though.

There are no more amazing tie matches, no back and forth matches. It's either one side steam rolls or constant concede matches. Usually marines. I'm not kidding either I played 6 matches yesterday all concedes as soon as the option was available. It's to hard to come back.
最近の変更はRainer Baedalが行いました; 2013年10月5日 15時27分
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Canned Pootis 2013年10月5日 19時42分 
I totally agree with you, the Marines are way OP, once they get exos its all over for the aliens
Hobocop 2013年10月5日 20時30分 
More often than not, it's difficult to stage comebacks in pub games because there isn't a strong sense of leadership, and pub players tend to be a little sackless and start scrambling for the concede button if there's even one setback for their team during the game and not because there's any real imbalance from a mechanical standpoint.

Good Lerks by themselves with nothing but Celerity and bite+spikes are strong enough to stall marines for quite a while, usually long enough for fades and 2nd hive to hit the field. They really don't need spores until later in the game when marines start getting a lot more armor and become much too dangerous with W2+ shotguns to engage directly.

Exosuits are powerful, but overrated. Their biggest weakness is and always has been map mobility since they can't use phasegates and aren't particularly fast. Easiest way to deal with mass exosuits is to go around them and hit the bases they aren't at, likely with a proxy gorge tunnel to get an Onos or something across the map in about 5 seconds without being noticed. Exos are forced to either plod all the way over and try to stop the aliens before they break anything important, wait for a beacon from the commander which forces them away from the position they were defending, or hope that the lights on their team can handle it.

Even if there's a lone Exo or something defending a base, 1v1 an Onos grinds Exosuits into paste 90% of the time with just Charge and Carapace, then you can just bile all of their expensive equipment.

Percieving marines winning more often usually has more to do with skill imbalances than anything else. I tend to see aliens winning just as many if not more games if they know how to work together and communicate.
最近の変更はHobocopが行いました; 2013年10月5日 22時11分
Canned Pootis 2013年10月5日 20時40分 
I hate it when people concede. why cant we just play the round until its over?
Hobocop 2013年10月5日 20時47分 
I agree to an extent, but getting contained to one base and just getting ♥♥♥♥ on for another 10-15 minutes isn't much fun. Would much rather the game end so a new one can get rolling.
[#OMEGA] - K2 2013年10月5日 21時53分 
57.6% Aliens win ratio. (-> ns2stats.com )

Besides, exos are crap. Feel like griefing your team if you research them, on an avarage pub game anyway.
最近の変更は[#OMEGA] - K2が行いました; 2013年10月5日 21時55分
Rainer Baedal 2013年10月5日 22時56分 
#OMEGA - K2 の投稿を引用:
57.6% Aliens win ratio. (-> ns2stats.com )

Besides, exos are crap. Feel like griefing your team if you research them, on an avarage pub game anyway.

This is wrong, it's marines with a 51.63% lead. Honestly I'm not sure how reasonable that even is.

When you look up the stats first you want to pick the correct version, then click on NO MODS. This percentage is still hard to figure out if exact enough due to the fact that the maps/time can have an influence. For all we know the Aliens have a serious advantage in 2 or 3 maps and have a HUGE disadvantage in ever other map.

After looking over the setup NSStats uses it doesn't appear to be relible whatsoever. Due to many servers appearing to be "test" servers (testing one side for instance all aliens 100% wins) , or a great deal of servers not giving information. Along with a great deal of mods. They need a selection to divided by country and then allow the person to go through and pull out the obvious test servers.
最近の変更はRainer Baedalが行いました; 2013年10月5日 23時02分
Hobocop 2013年10月5日 23時05分 
Clicking only no mods excludes servers running administration mods, which is a pretty crap metric considering the number of servers that use stuff like Shine and DAK.
Rainer Baedal 2013年10月5日 23時21分 
Hobocop の投稿を引用:
Clicking only no mods excludes servers running administration mods, which is a pretty crap metric considering the number of servers that use stuff like Shine and DAK.

You have to go through and cut through all those mods and find out which ones change gameplay for instance like CO or combat mode. Ect,.
最近の変更はRainer Baedalが行いました; 2013年10月5日 23時24分
[#OMEGA] - K2 2013年10月6日 1時36分 
Rainer Baedal の投稿を引用:
is wrong, it's marines with a 51.63% lead. Honestly I'm not sure how reasonable that even is.

When you look up the stats first you want to pick the correct version, then click on NO MODS. This percentage is still hard to figure out if exact enough due to the fact that the maps/time can have an influence. For all we know the Aliens have a serious advantage in 2 or 3 maps and have a HUGE disadvantage in ever other map.

After looking over the setup NSStats uses it doesn't appear to be relible whatsoever. Due to many servers appearing to be "test" servers (testing one side for instance all aliens 100% wins) , or a great deal of servers not giving information. Along with a great deal of mods. They need a selection to divided by country and then allow the person to go through and pull out the obvious test servers.

It doesn't calcuate game-changing mods in the default, nor old builds. It only includes games with at least 10 players in all reports.

Even if you want to stick to the 51% lead, it would mean the game is roughly balanced.
最近の変更は[#OMEGA] - K2が行いました; 2013年10月6日 1時38分
Nali Warcow - Mooing' 2013年10月6日 3時06分 
#OMEGA - K2 の投稿を引用:
57.6% Aliens win ratio. (-> ns2stats.com )

Besides, exos are crap. Feel like griefing your team if you research them, on an avarage pub game anyway.

Railgun = one hit lerk/skulk on 1 full charge.
[#OMEGA] - K2 2013年10月6日 3時54分 
Nali Warcow @ Twitch.tv の投稿を引用:
Railgun = one hit lerk/skulk on 1 full charge.

You can't oneshot lerks.

And exos are easy to kill.
最近の変更は[#OMEGA] - K2が行いました; 2013年10月6日 3時55分
Mr Cholmondley Warner 2013年10月6日 4時12分 
Its purely anecdotal, but with regard the win rate %, there are far too many variables in pub games to ever take those stats as a serious measure of balance.

Just the main one that springs immediately to mind, being the amount of games aliens win in the first 5 minuntes by chomping IPs while the marine commander is sat in his box saying nothing to the team. That happens at least 1 in 10 games for me, enough to seriously skew those stats from unbalanced to balanced.

Its all academic anyway, something is clearly not right somewhere, hence the game losing players at such a ridiculous rate. Its rare that I ever see someone bring up a concern either here or at the official forums though, where they aren't pounced upon by the die hard players, and any useful debate as to why the pub scene is in such a poor state is shutdown before it really gets a chance to begin.

Its a tough situation admittedly. If you pander to the masses, you get a bigger community. If you pander to the die hards, you get a tiny community and a game that stays true to its niche.

Sadly I don't think UWE know how to achieve a balance and so all we end up with is compromise after compromise, which leaves relatively few people happy.
Hobocop 2013年10月6日 4時42分 
I think it has more to do with the learning curve and the lack of 'progression' than the game's actual mechanics. More centralized stat tracking would go a long way towards the second point, but the learning curve involves a lot of things that can't really be taught through an in-game tutorial such as map knowledge, communication, positioning, walljumping and skirmishing maneuvers as aliens and whatnot.

Those things can only really be learned through experience playing against other players, and in a lot of cases, they're going to be vastly outskilled and likely stomped on for a good while before they get into the swing of things, and that's if they don't get frustrated and just go play the BF4 Beta or whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've been greens in servers running around clueless, yet they don't speak up and ask questions. Almost as if asking for help from other players is taboo or something. Might have something to do with the horrendous communities that other popular FPSes tend to foster, I'd wager.

Oh, and performance issues, which have been plaguing this game since release.
最近の変更はHobocopが行いました; 2013年10月6日 4時49分
Nali Warcow - Mooing' 2013年10月6日 4時59分 
#OMEGA - K2 の投稿を引用:
Nali Warcow @ Twitch.tv の投稿を引用:
Railgun = one hit lerk/skulk on 1 full charge.

You can't oneshot lerks.

And exos are easy to kill.

Sorry, but you can :) Done it many times.
[#OMEGA] - K2 2013年10月6日 5時17分 
Nali Warcow @ Twitch.tv の投稿を引用:
#OMEGA - K2 の投稿を引用:

You can't oneshot lerks.

And exos are easy to kill.

Sorry, but you can :) Done it many times.

You can one shot onos too if they lost HP. You can't if a lerk has full or mostly full hp.
Rail DMG = 30 + 130 charged = 160
Lerk HP (no upgrades) = 125 + 45*2 = 215
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投稿日: 2013年10月5日 15時22分
投稿数: 33