Natural Selection 2

Natural Selection 2

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[STING]RedDog Jan 31, 2013 @ 12:02pm
Gamers these days don't like to work to win
First off, I'd like to say that I highly, HIGHLY enjoy this game. As a fan and player of NS1, Unknown Worlds did a great job with NS2. I currently have almost 55 hours clocked into this game (which I know isn't much by some) and am happy to report that I am enjoying every minute. I DO believe this is a balanced game, or close to it anyway. It comes down to teamwork and communication - and of course skill.

So onto the main point of my post. I believe that gamers these days give up WAY too easily. No one wants to 'work' for a win anymore (maybe 'no one' is incorrect, so I'll change that to 'many'). The moment the momentum swings against a side, I start hearing "Aw crap! VOTE CONCEDE!" or "It's over guys, conceded and start again. We can't overcome", etc, etc, etc. It's rather annoying. There have been times where people are voting concede when we still have two tech points and 4 resource nodes - just because the third tech point was taken out. It's like "Well - ♥♥♥♥ing rally and hit them BACK!". But no, we get an 'all is lost attitude'.

I have been in TONS of games (which I'm sure others here have too) where my team has been beaten back from three tech points back to one, rallied, then won. So many games where it looked so bad but perseverance, tactics, and communication won the day.

Now, I'm not saying that voting concede doesn't have its uses. When you have one res node and one base with 5 oni rampaging around - great; concede. But it's not for losing two res nodes and you have three more.

This has irked me since they put in the option. While I see its uses, people are getting lazy using it.

Take today for instance. I was just in a game an hour ago playing marines on Docking. We had Terminal as our main, cafeteria and bar - the aliens had the rest of the map. When they took out bar and Cafeteria, we were down to one res node and Terminal. At that point, the screams of concede were everywhere. However, we didn't. We fought back. Onos after onos (and we didn't have FT's or GL's OR JPs!) came charging through. The team rallied and focus-fired each one while others when after the Gorges. We killed about 6 or 7 Oni while fighting our way BACK to Cafeteria. We clear that out, restablished a base, and pushed as a TEAM back to bar. This went back and forth for awhile, more Oni coming in, wrecking♥♥♥♥♥♥(at one point, they destroyed Bar and Cafeteria AGAIN, AND took power out in main, but we fought them off and restored power). But we would persevere and rebuild. We finally ended up gaining partial map control which allowed us to finally get GL's, FT's, and JPs. That helped us push to Locker Rooms while others were sent to harrass Departures and Generator. We knew that being so behind in tech, we needed to pull some of their aliens off the front lines at Locker Rooms. It worked and allowed us to gain Exos. We then pushed through Locker Rooms and took it. The funny thing about this point is that while they STILL had TWO HIVES and four res nodes - they ended up conceding. It was a glorious comback and such a great feeling.

Now, that would have NEVER have happened if we conceded. I know it has a lot to do with your team and commander, but I'm glad we stuck it out and FOUGHT for the win. So many people want the easy way out. Lose one base? Concede and start over. I say screw that! You fight until there REALLY is no way to continue. I may be coming from a different gaming generation (I'm 31), but back in the day with Quake 1 CTF and Team Fortress, conceding never was in our vocabulary. I'm sure old school gamers like myself could agree. It's just a different mindset.

Anyway, thanks for reading my little rant. I just needed to get that off my chest. Back to playing!

Cheers! :)
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
SanCo Jan 31, 2013 @ 12:13pm 
Lots of text, so just gonna answer your first. No matter what you believe, this game isnt balanced. Not even close. 40/60 in public, 30/70 in competative ENSL league, favoring aliens.
[STING]RedDog Jan 31, 2013 @ 12:34pm 
I have to disagree. Basing 'balance' on a perfect 50/50 split just isn't realistic. Let's take the public stats - a 10 point gap here means that other variables come HEAVILY into play. It's way too close to call 'unbalanced'. Now, I did say in my OP that I "did believe it was balanced, or close to anyway".

We'll probably have to just agree to disagree on this point.
Last edited by [STING]RedDog; Jan 31, 2013 @ 12:35pm
Makenshi Jan 31, 2013 @ 3:37pm 
Game isn't really balanced imo when you see one side consistently winning more often across all skill levels. A big part of the issue is the metagame, where you got a khamm that's allowed to do whatever he wants without having to communicate with his team much - and you can't really blame him either, because UWE didn't really give him much to work with other than to play SimFlora (no, bone wal doesn't count). Marines actually have the advantage against aliens in terms of combat across all stages of the game imo, but it doesn't help that most of the time it's a1w1 vs fades and onos.

Which goes into explaining the rest of your post. In NS2, most of the time, when you are losing, you are being steamrolled. Against a good opposing team, the gap usually just snowballs instead of the other way around. Instead of being able to build anywhere like in NS1 now you got the cyst/power/node mechanic so even if you try to ninja something it is very predictable. Of course people are going to concede when given the chance. Unlike NS1 where turtling is somewhat viable and ninjaing is viable, now you get spawncamped and a power/cyst system which renders ninjaing a gimmick at best against a competent team. If the game offers valid ways to come back from a single tech siege, do you think over half your team would have still voted concede?
› |2es-)!(- Jan 31, 2013 @ 5:42pm 
I may be coming from a different gaming generation (I'm 31), but back in the day with Quake 1 CTF and Team Fortress, conceding never was in our vocabulary. I'm sure old school gamers like myself could agree. It's just a different mindset.

Funny, I'm 31 as well and came from Team Fortress Classic as well and I agree 100% with your post.

However, removing the concede option wouldn't change anything, as before, they would just recycle the buildings instead or hit F4 to go to ready room.

I've had a number of comeback from behind games as well. People give up much too easily.
Zonker Jan 31, 2013 @ 8:24pm 
I don't know how many of you have played Nuclear Dawn, but funnily enough, the problem there was almost the opposite. People would never surrender. Which was extremely silly and almost annoying, because this
Originally posted by Makenshi:
In NS2, most of the time, when you are losing, you are being steamrolled. Against a good opposing team, the gap usually just snowballs instead of the other way around.
was true in ND as well. Teams got steamrolled. Just very, very slow. You could see your team was losing quite early sometimes, but it would take ten or twenty minutes of slowly backing up to actually end the game. Comebacks happen, but they usually take a very good commander and a well-organized team, often it's just not possible.

So I wonder what the exact difference between the two games or player bases is. Why do people surrender too early here, while they endure a gruesome grind to the last minute in ND? Seems rather strange to me.

There's one game mechanic ND had, though. I think you had to lose a certain number of resource point to be even given the possibility to surrender (which didn't mean people would use it then if they could turtle another 30 minutes). I'm not sure how NS2 handles the concede votes, but maybe that's something to consider? To only allow concede votes when certain requirements are met? So people don't just vote the game off the second a match turns in favor of the enemy.
Star Trucker Feb 1, 2013 @ 10:29am 
Yes, this is easily the single biggest downside to the game right now. As soon as one side suffers some sort of setback the commander is on the mic screaming "we're boned!! All is lost!"

No, the answer is to man up and try to hit them back. This game is just chock full of whiney crybaby quitters that think they have some sort of "mastery" of the game they can predict the outcome when infact you have no idea what is going to happen next.
NuclearShadow Feb 1, 2013 @ 11:13am 
If I recall right the original NS had a lean towards aliens as well, in-fact I would accuse it of being more so than NS2. Balance to me isn't important in this game. I play marines mostly and I want to be at a disadvantage. I want the invading forgien threat to be just that a threat not equal grounds to me. I even started playing commander recently and won 2 out of the 4 times and it gives me great sense of satisfaction leading my team to victory.

As for players behaviors give it time, they will either mature or leave for other games. Whenever I am in a losing game where defeat is a certainity and I always go down fighting and enjoy doing so. Win or lose this game is fun to the last second.
› |2es-)!(- Feb 1, 2013 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by GANuclearShadow:
....As for players behaviors give it time, they will either mature or leave for other games......

Actually, the more veteran players of this game tend to give up more easily than the noobies.
BiteThePain Feb 1, 2013 @ 12:00pm 
"Actually, the more veteran players of this game tend to give up more easily than the noobies." Could you please provide proof for your statement? Because personally, I mostly see the "console-generation" players wanting to give up.
Makenshi Feb 1, 2013 @ 12:05pm 
Again, the issue isn't so much that it's impossible to play on; it's the fact that at some point it becomes not fun to do so. Unlike NS1, upgrades and abilities are now tied to comm chairs. So, what happens in NS2, if you are playing against♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is that you can be strapped to single chair and be spored and faded for 10 minutes without jetpacks or have jpsg instagib your floor skulk before they proceed on spawn camping you to finish the game off at their leisure. Whereas stuff like heavies and devour and bile would still be available in NS1, you can't realistically expect a comeback from a single tech point deficit unless you all-in and successfully force a base trade.
nick Feb 1, 2013 @ 12:50pm 
breh breh breh come lift
[STING]RedDog Feb 1, 2013 @ 1:49pm 
Good discussion points all around. And to just be clear - my original post wasn't to take the concede option out of the game as I do know and see it's uses; it was more to that should be the LAST thing people think of using when only one res node gets blown up.

There have been many games where my team, marines AND aliens, have rallied from getting beat back to one tech point and one res node - and ended up winning. Albeit, good teams and a good comm were in place. There were always some whiners screaming concede and then surprised when we didn't and ended up winning.

Now, I DO know that there are certain situations that are hopeless. I get that. But in those situations, ALL other available options have been exhausted - and then I'll use concede.

I guess my view on it is that you play and fight as hard as you can, as a team, for the W. There are more and more players I meet that just give up on a dime; which is rather annoying. I would hate to see what would happen to them in the real world if suddenly their job became difficult. ;)

Again, though, must be a different mindset or generation. I do respect all the views and opinions thus far in this thread. Although I can't say I would agree with all of them. :)
Kinder Bueno Feb 1, 2013 @ 2:22pm 
It's not that players don't want to work (btw who wants to work in a game ? I work already all day long). What they don't like is being pulled back by noobs. Everyone being the noob of someone else. They feel that if the other players were at their level they would win easily. -> frustration -> rant -> etc...
[STING]RedDog Feb 1, 2013 @ 3:47pm 
My mistake, Kinder. I realized now that 'work' was the incorrect choice of word (because you're right, working in a game WOULD suck lol). The better choice would be 'earn'.
Lo Pan Feb 1, 2013 @ 5:10pm 
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Date Posted: Jan 31, 2013 @ 12:02pm
Posts: 23